Hi

I currently feed my 5 month old puppy, Charlie, Eukanabu.  He eats bit of it but i can tell he's not too thrilled.  I would prefer to feed him a premium complete dry food as I think they are better for dogs.  He quite enjoys Pedigree pouches although I don't think they contain as much goodness as the Premuim dog foods.  I'm going to try the Purina Pro challenge to see if he prefers that.  Does any one have the same problem or have you tried Purina???

Thanks

Shelley xx

Hi Shelley - Just because it is more expensive doesn't make it a better food ;)  I feel for your pup a bit, he doesn't like his food and his mum is about to chop and change it which will probably upset his tum!  I would suggest you check out exactly what you are feeding him in the way of reading the ingredients list for starters (as apposed to going for the higher price.)  My personal opinion is that commercial foods are not the BEST or tastiest food you can give a dog - I dont mean to cause any offence to anyone that feeds this way - just my personal opinion.  When I shop for my own food I read ingredients lists avoiding E numbers/artificial colours/additives/derivitives etc and I take the same care when choosing food for my dog.  I feed raw meat and bones, which my dog loves.  While I am not trying to push raw down your throat I am trying to say there is more out there than a premium dry food that your dog doesn't like and would look the same if you left it for a couple of years!!  Have you tried Burns?  Nature Diet?  Natures Menu (wet and frozen types) - these too are premium foods, without the same advertising campaigns as Purina or Iams!  They contain much better ingredients in greater volumes. That said you cant always give in to the taste test ;) many foods have added salt and sugars to enhance taste.  And some [IAMS] are accused of performing unethical taste experiments on dogs!
Good luck in your quest - Sarah :)

You are welcome to draw your own conclusions Rozzer :), but I think in interest of balance it is worth saying that of the 300 or so additives permitted in food all but about 40 of them are nature copies i.e. the exact chemicals of a nutural version very often the chemicals found in fruit to prevent it decaying as soon as picked for example.  I believe if an orange was a manufactured items it would legally require more than one E number stamped on its side.  All additives have to be within the legal limits which in themselves are set well below, sometimes 10s of times, the safet levels determined by years on continuous research in the human food industry.  Many raw feeders seem to use additives too except they tend to call them supplements :) I'm not sure of all the suppliments given but I know the fish oil capsules I have used have preservative and stabilisers as you would expect to give them any kind of a shelf life, similarly vitamins have a very short life if not preserved indeed the levels in fresh vegetables fall at an alarming rate when left in a store for even days.
You are quite right to point out that price does not always reflect quality but neither does advertising campaigns reflect the reverse which brings me to the final point that the tales about Iams and the like are invariably linked to grumbles about big business :)

Unfortunately you are right Isabel, they are COPIES, synthetic versions of the real thing; and when you study nutrition you realise that to get the same amount of effectiveness from a synthetic vitamin you need to give far more.

If you choose to use FBO with stabiliser and preservatives that is your prerogative; there are plenty of others available on the market that do not need this.

There are plenty of studies on some commercial foods that have proved detrimental to many dogs.

I have never heard of synthetic vitamins but if you do need more of them I'm sure the manufacturers are allowing for that ) certainly I have never had a dog suffer from a vitamin deficiency.
There may be studies that suggest these things are detrimental but they run against the fact that the majority of dogs are fed in this way and it hasn't prevented the population as a whole maintaining very good health.

You have not heard of synthetic vitamins?

If you care to research this you will find that the majority of vitamins added to processed food are exactly this.

For example Vitamin E - dl-alpha tocopherol = indicates Natural Vitamin E, d-alpha tocopherol = synthetic..........

The majority of people in the UK read The Sun, does not indicate the quality of the paper though (although it does say a lot about the readers) :D

I have done some googling on synthetic vitamins, on some of the references it was clear from the context that they were actually talking about supplimented vitamins rather than synthetic, when they were truely talking about synthetics the discussions seem to lead always to the conclusion that so long as the correct adjustments were made to the quantities there was no difference in effect.
I'm afraid I can't understand your point about the Sun, does reading it affect your health? :)

I am sure it would if I ever read it ;) :D

It is easy to check if the vitamins in the food are natural or synthetic by actually asking the manufacturer (as they do not post this on their bag) :D

Please let me know if you find any dog food manufacturer that places NATURAL vitamins in their food.........

By why does it matter if the effects are exactly the same when any adjustments are made?  People are interested in the benefits the vitamins bring not the sources, or should be :)

But how do we know that adjustments are made...........?

Also differing dogs have differing needs (like people) for ALL nutrients depending on their individual physiognomy and lifestyle, work etc.

Hence there IS no one commercial food that will suit ALL dogs at ALL times as not all have the same requirements.  How do you know if the diet you are using provides enough of that particular item for your particular dog?

You have no idea as the testing that is done is, as I mentioned before, geared to the "middle of the road" dog in certain situations.

And as for not being interested in the source well I am afraid that is exactly my point we should be very interested in the source of ALL things.............

>But how do we know that adjustments are made...........?

Equally, how do we know they're not?

I suppose it depends on whether you trust people to tell the truth or not. Personally I've found the vast majority of people to be honest.
:)

>But how do we know that adjustments are made...........?

Because the general population are showing no signs of vitamin deficiency.  I have no qulifications in nutrition but I suspect the vets advising the food companies know a thing or two ;)
I agree not all dogs will do well on all diets but I think the margins of tolerance of pretty wide as evidenced by the fact that the majority of dogs do very well on the majority of foods on offer, you can only react, indeed, only need to react if your dog is not showing signs of thriving.  Surely a raw diet commences with a middle of the road regime and is only adjusted if the dog shows signs of not thriving, what's the difference?

In my particular case I gauge my breed, its activity level, its environment, its sex,  etc etc etc  Each of my two dogs is fed differently.

There is a difference between survive and thrive and many animals, inc man, are not fed their optimum diet and have sub clinical deficiencies.

When their immune system etc is just pushed over the edge by a minior infection, stress it is only then that the deficiency becomes clinically visible.

One cannot judge the overall health of any organism solely by the absence of visible sickness............

Breeders often know which complete food is best suited to their breed too and adjust with activity levels, welping etc.

>One cannot judge the overall health of any organism solely by the absence of visible sickness............

The is probably true in the short term but we are talking now of numerous generations of dog over about 50 years.

You mean the increase over the generations of ill health such as auto immune diseases, allergies, food intolerances, HOD, HD, "sensitive" stomachs et al ;)

I'm not sure that these things have increased they certainly haven't prevented the population living for longer than they did years ago.  Other factors may be occuring here for instance perhaps dogs with sensitive stomachs remain in the breeding programs of hobby breeders who have the time and inclination to nuture them to their potential.  The breeders of old, with generally much bigger kennels, bringing on whole litters with no great sentimental attachment might never have bothered and passed any difficult to feed animal on to a pet home and out of the breeding population.  Environmental factors may also play a part.  Who can say for sure with these things.

No they have not prevented the dogs living longer because of veterinary intervention that was either unavailable or too costly years ago.

The law of the jungle ie the survival of the fittest has, IMHO, been ignored to the detriment of many species.........

Well thats another factor.  All the dogs I have owned have certainly benefited from veterinary care in terms of vaccinations preventing early death from viruses, I'm sure we have headed off the posibility of infections following injury and we may have avoided reproductive cancers or pyometry by opting for spaying but as my dogs have been very hearty into their teens I can honestly say none of the veterinary treatment they have received, seems to me, to be in anyway connected to a short coming in their nutritional requirements being met.
I'm not sure how you are connecting this to the laws of the jungle, survival of the fitest etc, if we followed those law we would have to let them succumb to viruses, infections etc.  Rather than ignore those laws of the jungle I think we are choosing to override them and good job too!  But that is, surely, a completely difference subject.

Hi

I don't chop and change his food as he has been on Eukanba since he was tiny and I've always added a bit of the Pedigree pouch to make it more tasty.  My choice of him having a premuim food is that most premuim foods like the one you mention Burns are more natural say than the commercial food Pal for example. I am well aware that the price dosen't mean jack.

I would love to feed him a natural diet but as a puppy it is vital he gets the correct amount of protein, fats, oils and vitamins, and I would be scared I wasn't providing the correct amounts for him.  I always check the labels which makes me belive that feeding him Pedigree alone is not giving him the correct amount of protein that he currently needs.  I would not keep changing his food as I am well aware of puppies and dogs sensitvie digestive system and so if any one can reccomend a good food I will look in to it.

thanks

Shelley xxx

Hi shelley,
Welcome to CD.
I had a problem with one of my older dogs as a young pup with Eukanuba and changed over to James Wellbeloved I feed  it now to my pup also, one meal dry for the teeth and the rest I put hot water on,  leave for 10-15 min until it cools and then add a little cold to make a little gravy this makes it swell and the dogs love it never had a problem since.I think it releases a bit more flavour.

hope this helps

regards
Roni

Thanks Roni

I think I will give it a go.

Shelley xx

my 2.5 year old bitch eats something and loves it for about 2 weeks and the refuses to eat it again , it really is worrying , i havent found anything at all that she will eat all the time , ive just put it down to her being fussy, i would like to point out that he tummy is fine and no runny poos or anything like that , vet says shes just likes a varied diet and gets bored with the same meals, i always knew she was human!, seriously though i feel for you , it can be worring when they wont eat, good luck , in what ever you do  and hope you find a solution soon,
julie & millie

I can't say I would be too thrilled eating a box of "instameal" 3 times a day for the rest of my life.

However if you are going to feed a complete food I would point you in the direction of manufacturers that have a more ethical approach to dog food and do not test on animals and also contain no unecessary additives etc.

Naturediet - cooked meat, rice and carrots, BUAV recommended, on the web, will deliver, and has helped many dogs with poor appetites and poor digestion.

Burns - dry food, meat, rice and veggies, again on the net, BUAV recommended and many, many dogs have improved after going over to this brand.

If I fed commercial food I would feed the former by choice.