MP's back total Ban

And no doubt the house of lords will vote no ban so back to square one again why cant they compromise?

Hasn't Blair said that he will use the Parliament Act to over turn any "disobedience" by the House of Lords?

You might like living under a dictatorship .... I do not.

Wake up...this isn't just about Foxhunting, this is about peoples liberty and peoples lives.

This is what I hate about this country now. The ordinary man,woman or whatever has NO VOICE anymore. We ARE living in a kind of dictatorship. What amazes me is how our dear Prime Minister has managed to smarm his smiley way round just about everyone. So nice, so affable, and yet any opposition to what The Great One wants has been effectively quashed. If a total ban is achieved, then it will be a very sad day indeed for this country. I sense a rebellion coming on.....
Where is the opposition?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can I get sued for saying what I think? Hope not - it's my birthday, so I'll say what I want!!!

I do happen to agree here. When I voted for T B I was taken in by his charms and I really thought he would make a diffrence. But they are as bad as the others! They don't listen to what we have to say, whether your wanting the hunting with dogs banned or want hunting to remain as it is, this government really don't care what we think do they? For one I do think T B is anit dogs in any case. I don't think the Blairs really like animals at all and have no idea?

Julieann

why is that the people never get to vote on things like this that effect thier liberty's and lives

Probably cos the government are scared they would lose, you only have to look at the turn out at the last election to realise most of the country wouldn't bother to vote. And if you look at any discussion there's always a fair split so it could be a close run thing. Ingird

For what its worth my thought is that IF a referendum was held on banning hunting with dogs then the BAN would be in place quicker than you can say Tony Blair. I have posted before on a board and had my messages taken off as those messages were seen as 'Pro Hunting' which I am not. I am pro dog and the current legislation is anti-dog NOT anti-fox-hunting which is how it is portrayed in the media.

Likewise if a referndum on making Homosexual acts illegal and/or the re-introduction of Capital punishment would both be quickly passed by the electorate. It is very doubtful that we will ever be given a free vote in anything that the Government does not want to be enacted.

What Longdog says is true and all the time the media picks up on the most 'press worthy' part of any of the bills, then joe public will be misled. This bill is not just about hunting foxes, but that is the part that sells newspapers. The proposed Animal Welfare Bill is another case in point. That also, will effect the everyday lives of dog owners, but the media chooses to highlight the 'docking' issue alone. Why? because it is a contentious issue that sells their newspapers.

Actually I did ... and I am thrilled :) Though I agree the debacle of the unelected chamber will throw it all into chaos.

Leigh,
I agree that the ban really has more to do with dictatorship rather than fox hunting, I personally don't agree with fox hunting but even I can see that there may be a need for it. I think trying to ban hunting with dogs is going to cause more problems than the gov can handle and it will be a total farce anyway. As one very nice huntsman said on the news last night, they worked under liscence during FMD and they could do it again.
Am I being cynical but it seems to me that this bill seems to have been suddenly pushed forward, perhaps Blair is feeling campaignless now that he's not playing God with George W quite so much now.

Stephen Byers springs to mind. The government shelved the Criminal Justice Bill to make way for the Hunting with Dogs Bill!! Why? Because the CJB wouldn't have caused the uproar that men in crimson jackets riding to hounds causes and it wouldn't have taken the heat off Mr.Blair.

Did anyone notice that 1000's of our troops were sent to Afghanistan yesterday?

Now thats cynical.

A friend's husband is a kennelman in the Borders and he worked on the Foot and Mouth cull both in the borders and Dumfries. And if the Scot Exec get their way, as of next year he'll be jobless and homeless.

It was on the news that Tony Blair voted for ban so no surprises there. But does anyone know how Tony Blair accually plans to control the fox population once he manages to get his ban through? Or has he not thought that far ahead?

Obvious - They will build more roads so that more of them will be run over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's also remember that timing is crucial, last year the Bill was shelved because a General Election was looming and there was so much outcry at that time, now of course the election has been won and the next one is a long way off, the deed will be done and dusted by then, and as usual Joe Public will have long forgotten it. Ingrid

Anyone remember the No 10 cat going missing as soon as Cherie & Tone moved in??????
They are not animal lovers, which explains why he was happy to take a £million bribe from the animal rights activists.......none of them understand the 1st thing about animals.

ANd after renegating on his promise to pensioners re: pensions, we now find that there is plenty of money in the kitty to send 1700 troops to Afghanistan yesterday AND wage war on Saddam too, while GW has more or less finished our steel industry with his 30% tax on steel imports to the USA. Still people are dying in hospital corridors because B. LIAR wont allocate more money to the NHS, but there is always plenty in the kitty for the games HE wants to play. Democracy - my ..........(unprintable).

Please keep this thread on topic: Hunting with Dogs ~ First vote ~ BAN

Political Forums :)

I dont agree with fox hunting, and yes i do welcome a complete ban!!. England back in the dark ages was a barbaric country and when all these so called sports started, by the aristocracy, and well to do gentry, they were not thinking about humainly culling these animals but satisfying there own blood thirsts! if the animals need to be controlled so they do not get over populated then kill them quickly not chased miles across the country side,( and i will take this oppertunity to say that not all land owners welcome the hunt, not that it usually stops them, )anyway back to the subject in hand,> then possibly dug out of there den, and then ripped apart by loads of hounds, which have all been brought up to do this by being fed together in a large kennel with animal parts being thrown into them so they can all, yes you guessed it rip it apart. Please do not tell me that peolpe who are involved in the hunts are all nice people, because they are not, and the way they bring these dogs up right from when they are puppies is purely for the hunts purpose, a puppy is a puppy at the end of the day it is how they are brought up and if they were treated like any other pet dog they wouldnt know what a fox was. So when it is said the dogs will have to be destroyed whos fault is it in the first place yep the good old hunt itself, as for the horses have these people never heard of recreational enjoyment, or can they not live without seeing some blood on there rides, if they still want to do the whole hunt thing then what is wrong with drag hunting? it is the same thing it just doesnt involve a fox, or are these people so hell bent on getting there pound of flesh, well i have had my say and no doubt there will be all you pro fox hunting people jumping down my throut, but im sorry you made the hunt what it is today, and if it comes to all these hounds and such like being put down, oh i forgot you shoot them dont you! be it on your heads.

Sorry Metpol, to tread on your toes. We walked hound puppies for many years; they had loads of TLC and socialisation, and we loved them dearly, and followed their progress throughout their lives.

However, there comes a time, usually when they're about 6 months old, when their instinct takes over, and they go hunting all by themselves. At that stage, they usually go back to kennels, where they are taught further by older hounds and the huntsman.

I think that folk should only criticize when they have experienced things at first hand, to do otherwise shows contempt for any balanced view - this is where TB comes badly unstuck.

Also - Metpol - please break up your sentences, because it's very difficult to read your post legibly.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

I have experienced it first hand, all be it a few years ago now, but you are going to get differing veiws on the subject are'nt you.

Back in the dark ages,as you put it, virtually everyone hunted - not just the aristocracy!

Metpole could not have said better myself, I heard that when a hound reaches seven years it is shot? is that true. And seeing little children blooded makes you want to throw up .

Blooding hasn't gone on for years!

A good friend of mine who hunts and agrees with it confirms that the dogs are 'destroyed' after their useful hunting years are up.

What you have to remember is hounds are not pets, they are working dogs, if they can no longer hunt then it would be unfair to leave them in the kennels on hunt days. Think of the complaints if you have one dog barking in your garden and then imagine a whole load of hounds doing the same.
Years ago when I helped out with hounds any dog that had behaviour detrimental to the welfare of the pack as a whole was destroyed regardless of age, remember the stories in the papers of the hounds killing cats etc., if you have one dog that leads the pack astray then it can't be kept. Age was more a quesion of the individual rather then a hard and fast rule.
These are in effect pedigree dogs and their ancestry can be traced back hundreds of years, just imagine how upset any breeder would be to have their entire line wiped out. The hunt master and kennel staff know every dog and don't forget the hunt terriers too, and this is another reason why they are fighting so hard to keep them. Ingrid

does this mean that the hounds will be destroyed if hunting is banned?

Yes the hounds will be destroyed wont be able to adapt to life as a pet.

Basically, yes the hounds will be destroyed, it would be very difficult to retrain seasoned hounds for drag hunting and unlike working collies the dogs are not trained on a one to one basis by humans, they are trained by the pack. Anyone who really thinks they could be rehomed has to think what life would be like for the dog, you would probably have to keep it on a lead and be prepared to walk miles everyday, the half hour round the block would not suffice, seperated from the pack it would be unhappy. There are some 20,000 hounds in the country, I certainly wouldn't want to take one on and I normally have rescue dogs, how many others on this board would be prepared to. Ingrid

Yes the poor hounds will be put to sleep because they are only brought into this world to chase and kill foxes!

Julieann

just a suggestion -
couldnt they be kept like the grey hounds and the chase a puppet around a track or like in american a big open field with a motor which runs a puppet across feilds.
and if the hunting is banned then after this generations worth has had their time then breed no more unless they (the new generation) were put in to homes where they could be brought up in homes where there job wasnt to hunt.
just a suggestion

in a simple one-word answer........."NO"
Fox hounds are not sight hounds....surely you must realise the difference ????

And how do they then earn thier keep?

how do they earn their keep at the hunt kennels then,
another suggestion-
there is no reason the puppet on the motor couldnt be sented.

By doing the job they were bred for at the request of local farmers

Please tell me its not just me.........!!!???

not just you what Sam.

satin........not just me that can't believe some of the idiotic ideas! ;)

No Sam its not;).Gillian

I cannot recall the last time I read such rot!!!! Please re-read my posting on puppy walking.

I know you want to keep the focus on hunting with dogs, but by the very act of concentrating on this bill, the Government seems to be deliberately trying to divert attention away from the things that are really wrong in this country - no wonder people feel angry!

Did I hear correct? the bill may go through with the Master of the hunt having a shot gun to kill the fox first.Well what happens if he misses and a "dog or horse "gets injured
I would love to see the sport banned but this gun thing seems stupid .

Patricia, basically the bad wording of the Scottish Bill means that you could carry on Hunting as long as you carry a gun and try and shoot the fox before the dogs get it, no doubt it will be tested in courts, don't know if the English one will go through on the same basis. Ingrid

I don't like to get too involved in these debates because quite frankly I don't know enough, however from what I do know I find the thought of a total ban very scarey indeed, not just for the people, hounds, horses and us dog people but for the fox as well.

How is the fox population going to be controlled if the ban goes ahead ? Try shooting them and running the risk of the bullet not being instantly fatal. Poisoning or traps - great just what we want when walking the countryside with our dogs :-( Or are there other, better measures that can be taken ?

With regards to hunting with hounds, my understanding is that once the fox is caught it is killed in a matter of seconds, when the kind media show the fox being torn apart it is already dead. Also are there not times when a very fit and healthy fox would get away and that the foxes that are caught are very often the weak ones anyway ??

As I say I don't know enough about the subject so please correct me if any of my thoughts are wrong. Does anyone know of a good website I can take a look at that explains it all and what a total ban would really mean ? I'll do a search anyway :-)

And does anyone really think that all the energy and money expanded on the hunt is efficient in controlling the fox population, particularly when evidence is brought out that in some areas the hunts people actually encourage the fox breeding to keep their sport alive.

Imgrid Hi, sorry the whole bill sounds crap to me

Ok guy's so how do i get the little fun face's I feel left out .

Click on HELP at the top right of the page.

Fiona

Thanks A BUNCH