Ive been feeding my two on Barf for quite a while now and I started off measuring everything but what with Fagan being a dead fussy eater and Alfie eating from Fagans bowl I gave up measuring and just chucked some food into a bowl three times a day; sometimes it got eaten sometimes not :rolleyes:

Fagan has over the last couple of days started eating well and Alfie as always eats everything so I thought maybe I should start weighing their food again but im not sure how much to give.  Fagan is 12 months old and weighs 26kg, he is underweight so I need to feed in order to bulk him up a bit.  He likes to run too so burns it off quite fast.  Alfie is coming up 6 months, he is a chunky chap weighing 21kg but he hasnt grown upwards much yet so im happy with his weight.

Also what percentage of RMB's do you feed per day ?  I only feed one meal of this but their mince does contain bone too, im wondering if I should be feeding more ?

Both dogs are Irish Setters by the way, and both are very healthy - appart from Fagans anorexic appearance :)

Claire :)

Hmmmmm

I wouldnt rush trying to put weight on the 12month old, he's done his upwards growing but needs to put on muscle slowly, if he was underweight at 2 then id agree iwth putting on more weight. Obviously if he is running off a lot of it then feed more.

I feed according to work, so if they have had a lazy day they get less food, if we are going out for long runs several times a day then they get more.

Barf feeding does encourage slower growth which i think is more natural than the rapid weight gain and growth that seems to happen in complete fed dogs.

Other than rmb's and mince, what are youfeeding? If you feed too many rmbs you will get a constipated dog, so if you do want to up the levels of rmb or boney mince, up the levels of veg as well!

Em

The reason Fagan is skinny is because he refused to eat for a long time and then when he did eat it was hardly enough to keep an ant alive :(  you can feel every bone in his body because he is so thin so he definitely needs some weight putting on him.  I am pleased with little Alf's growth rate (slow and in proportion) but I know pups need more food than adults.  I remember I used to work on a percentage of their weight, I think I used to feed 5% of their body weight ?

It 3% of the body weight for an adult.Just this as a guide (maybe feed the youngster about 5% to start with) and see how they go.Increase or decrease as necessary.
I had a fussy eater but hes now sits and sings for his dinner(literally!!) and cleans his bowl every day now hes on raw!
Archer

Thanks Archer, Fagan has been on Barf since he was a pup but he has never been a great feeder - sometimes starving himself for days at a time , ive occasionally given him complete but he wont eat it for long.  It was his 1st birthday last week and for the first time in months he cleared three whole meals and he has been going strong ever since :)

I am at the moment waiting on my order from Landywoods, im hoping it will be within the next couple of days hopefully this will keep his appetite up :)

If you've put in an order with Landywoods Janet will be able to tell you exactly which day it will be arriving since they have set days for set areas.Give her a mail and ask...
If your youngster goes off his food again drop me a PM and I can give you some advise as to what I did to stop my fussy eater being fussy...
Archer

I was told to phone last week to find out when but didnt get an answer, I did leave a message but havent heard anything.  I will give them another call :)

Try an email...Janet usually replies in the evening as they are all out working on the business during the day
Archer

Blondiebird88- have you read Dr. Ian Billinghurst's book "Give Your Dog a Bone"? He explains very clearly what the diet should consist of and in what sort of quantities. I would worry that by simply "chucking some stuff in the bowl" (pardon the rather crass expression) you are not providing a balanced diet. I would recommend that you read this book ASAP (it is not a thick book, and if even a novice like myself could understand it, so can you!).
My Giant Schnauzer puppy failed to grow on commercial foods and was quite sickly, but since she been on BARF since she was 5 months (she is now 18 months) old, she grown into a fit, healthy and happy dog. I know there are many "schools" on BARF, but I have achieved great results trusting Dr. Billinghurst, so I would recommend some urgent research. :)

For pups I feed 10%of actual body weight until around 5 months and then changed to 5% of actual body weight. Adults get 3% As they grew and were weighed on a fortnightly basis I could work out a varied and balanced diet at the correct amount. With 60% RMB, this works for my dogs, it may not work for all. I get all my butchermeat, chicken stock carcasses etc. monthly from butcher in massive boxes and spend an afternoon weighing, chopping, mixing and bagging each meal and freezing. This means I simply take a bag from freezer, thaw and feed. If I get fresh green tripe (whole stomach) I slash with sharp butchers knives and throw the slices in the freezer in shed, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that this cannot be brought into house. (correct me if I am wrong) And the minced frozen tripe already comes in 1lb bags and I get 4 x 30 boxes at a time. Bought two 2nd hand freezers for £20.00 each (thankfully I have space for them) :) Never having to go through the process daily it has turned into convenience food. :D  Feeding raw really is so easy, it becomes second nature after a while and you stop thinking about it. Dont give up , but please make sure their meals are balanced over a period of time.  Go back into archives and do a search on posts written by tohme, she was my bible, wish she was still on the forum :(

Hi BB :)  I go by my eye ;)  When we started on raw I would walk round to the vets every Saturday morning and weigh the princess :D  If she went up slightly I would adjust accordingly.  Reckon I got it just right now...Never weigh, just judge - what a bad mother
She has favourites mind you which are rabbit, poussin, heart, salmon, pilchards in tom sauce and chicken livers (not at once!) - try Fagan on a bit of rabbit maybe?  Every now and then (when I feel lazy) she gets a bowl of Natures menu heart and tripe mince (the AMP stuff) with some steak mince mixed in and maybe an egg - she lurves that (proper mince mind you, from the counter :D) 
We feed about 40% RMB, definately no more than 50% - We feed this in the way of Chick wings and carcass, rabbit, poussin, duck, ox tail - to name a few!  Hope this gives you some ideas!
Cheers
Sarah

I never weigh anything either...if they get a bit porky they get a cut in quantities and vice versa.
Archer

Rozzer, I got the boys a rabbit each from the butcher the other week and Fagan was a right ponce with it - wouldnt even look at it until I had chopped it into three pieces and then he would only eat the legs - little Alf ended up with nearly two rabbits to himself :D :D

I have just had my order from Landywoods, im going to feed them 1.3kg each to start with which is about 5% of their body weight and I will see how it goes :)

Scamp, thanks for your concern but I have actually read two books by Billinghurst (the BARF diet and Grow your pups with bones) and also Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kymythy Schultze.  Along with "speaking" to folk on here and on other websites I think I am pretty clued up on the BARF diet (although you learn something new every day) and what I mean by saying "chucking some stuff in the bowl" (what makes this a crass expression ? ) was that I dont weigh everything for my boys I literally just chuck it in a bowl, they are fed a good variety and their diet balances well over a week - 10 days.

So thanks for your advice on "urgent" research but I started this well before I even had a dog, let alone fed a dog on this diet.

Claire :)

Claire, well it's great to know that you have done your homework!! I haven't been around here for long, and from your first post I felt like perhaps BARF was a relatively  new thing fo you, that's why I suggested you read some books. (you wouldn't believe the some people who simply give their dogs some meat and call it BARF- and then wonder why the dog is not doing well. Defies belief every time.) As regards to the "crass expression", I didn't want you to feel that I was "accusing" you of simply emptying your fridge left-overs into the food bowl without a further thought- and yes I have actually met these people, the ones who quite literally chuck some random  bits into the bowl and then they are amazed when the dog gets ill. (and can't see the connection)

My dog used to be very fussy, too, and she still goes through stages of this. At first she wouldn't eat lamb, she would quite literally spit it out and would rather starve than touch it. I started cheating her by first cooking some lamb (no bone), as I thought the smell of raw lamb might have been too strong. I then gave it to her as titbits form a "human plate" (everything tastes better from a human plate!), only a few bits a day or so. Then I would cook it slightly less until it was raw, and then also give raw bits with bone. (ribs). She is now very keen on lamb, although she wants me to hold the leg none for her until she gets started chewing on the other end. At first I had to sit on the floor and hold it until she was finished, but now I just need to start her off and she can do the rest. (strange, I know...)
For a while she wouldn't eat her veggie mix if there was carrot in it, now she loves her carrot but refuses spinach...I don't know, it seems to come and go. Otherwise she eats a good veggie mix and loves it, in fact she sits beside me drooling as I prepare it, and she loves nothing better than a carrot to chew on while she waits!
She is also fussy with offal- she will heart (from AMP) raw, but kidney and liver from the butcher have to be lightly cooked, or she won't eat them. I guess it must be the strong smell of raw kidney/liver that she doesn't like. Claire, have you tried lightly cooking the things the dogs won't eat?   (I use a  microwave steamer for the offal) I also fool my dog by feeding her from a human plate and on the other side of the kitchen- she then thinks it's human left-overs and not icky dog food ha-haa! 

Hey Claire, I have to chop the bunny too! :D  I'll never forget gathering up Lana's bedding to be washed only for half a rabbit carcass to drop out   She feels the need to roll it up if I give it whole!!  Probably an instinctual thing - big meal, save it for later when it's safe kind of approach ;)  Chopping bunny is not an enjoyable task at 7am before leaving for work :D
Sarah :)

LOL, i get my OH to do it we have to use a huge knife and a hammer   next time when the butcher says "do you want me to do anything with it" ill ask him to chop it into bits (although im sure thats not what he means cos he probably thinks its for me :D :D )

Scamp, I cook the liver for the boys, they refuse to eat it any other way. I have also in the past cooked lamb legs and turkey drumsticks for them (removing the bones of course ;) ) just so it doesnt go to waste when they refuse it :rolleyes: ) In my order from landywoods I have some frozen packs of  mixed offal so im hoping they will eat this without turning up their little ginger noses ;)

Does anyone know if this Landywoods will deliver in Wiltshire? Are their meat and offal as disgusting as the frozen meat you normally get from pet shops- you know the chicken mince which is bright pink when raw and brown when cooked and smells of s*it! :D
My dog would rather starve than eat that stuff, but I would like to try some of those mixed offal packs fro Landywoods. Do they have a minimum size for orders like AMP? I would hate to have to order £35 worth and then have to bin it if the dog won't touch it.

I never thought of asking the butcher for rabbit, though! Does rabbit tend to be quite expensive? Is it likely to cause the runs when I feed it for the first time? (i.e. should I introduce it slowly?) My dog is very good at at the chasing bit of the hunt, but so far hasn't caught one- simply not fast enough- I keep telling her that if she wants to get a really fresh dinner she is going to have to find her fifth gear! :D

I don't know if they deliver in Wiltshire, ring them up and find out. They have a website.

I think you will find that the meat is not intended to be cooked....................

Most butchers do not stock rabbit and if they do it is some ridiculous price; you need to get friendly with someone who goes lamping etc ;)

I get all my rabbits for free, either the dogs catch them and eat them ears first with their coats on, or my friendly neighbour gives them to me after he has been lamping.

Your local clay pigeon shoot is a good source of lampers or agricultural merchants.

Frozen raw meat is easily available from Pets at Home, tripe, chicken, beef, lamb, fish and mixtures etc. 

I buy my meat in bulk from a chicken processor and end of day at supermarkets.  The only meat I feed not fit for human consumption is tripe.

Thanks, Tohme. I have found that the pet store mince is so vile that it needs cooking before the dog will go anywhere near it. All my dog''s food comes from my butcher now, apart from heart and turkey necks which I order from AMP. Always looking for some variety, though! ;)
I will ask them about the rabbit the next time I am in, as they are very good for getting me things they don't normally stock, like the turkey legs the other day.

BTW- have you taught your dogs to hunt? My Giant will chase and track, (she hasn't been taught to do this) but has never caught, not being fast enough, so wonder if there is any chance she ever will. I also worry that were she to catch a rabbit/hare, she would simply injure it and then let it go. Do dogs tend to kill their prey instantly? I couldn't stand watching her play with a half dead animal, torturing the poor thing, you see.

:D My dogs hunt naturally I am afraid......... and dogs do not need to be taught to track, they do it naturally.

I can't speak for other dogs, mine have always despatched anything they have caught quite efficiently............

Yes Landywoods do deliver to Wiltshire . They do have a minimum order of £50-00 though
Jackie

my butcher charges £2 for a rabbit I know its expensive, and considering they are always out lamping in the field out the back of my house if I spoke to a few people im sure I could find out who it is and could get my rabbits from them, im not sure if my boys would eat them with fur on though.

Fagan has caught a couple of rabbits in the past - usually ones with mxymatosis (appalling spelling :D ) but he doesnt kill them, he tosses them in the air like its one of his toys, then Alf comes along and they play tug of war and at the end of it the poor bunny is still living :( 

What is the easiest way for me to kill them ?  i feel so bad leaving a mxy rabbit.  Can the boys eat a mxy bunny ?

edit to say - Scamp, if my boys eat the offal from landywoods then I believe any dog will - I have the fussiest dogs on the planet :D :D

£2 is very cheap, I know butchers that charge much more.

To kill them there is a knack with a twist and pull to break its neck or just bop it's head on a nearby tree. Mxy won't hurt your dogs, however remember to worm regularly if they eat rabbit.............

My boys are wormed regular because they tend to eat whatever the cats bring home - dead or alive :( 

I still dont know if I can bring myself to kill a bunny - even if it is in the rabbits best interests, I stood over one mxy rabbit with a big flint in my hand but just couldnt bring myself to clobber it one :rolleyes: the last one we can accross I left to the fate of my cats whilst I dragged the dogs home :(

If £2 is cheap for a rabbit I might just carry on getting them at the butchers - especially if I can get him to chop them up for me first :D :D

If squeamish or easily upset, please dont read any further......

Blondebird

The most consistant method that I've found to dispatch rabbits is (assuming you are right handed) - hold rabbit firmly by its back legs with your right hand. With the left hand, hold the back of the head so that thumb and forefinger are around the back of the neck. Pull hard in a downwards direction with your left hand whilst tilting the head back, keep your right hand firmly in place. The rabbit should be dead immediately provising you use sufficient strength. A certain amount of strength is required to kill a mature rabbit quickly and humanely.

I'm a bit squeamish about holding on to myxi rabbits for any longer than necessary, and I can take a rabbit from the dog, kill it and have it tossed in the nearest hedge in about three seconds!

Oooh gross, I dont know if I could do that, I might not do it right and leave the poor thing in more pain :(

I think I will invest in a shot gun, or a decent dog which is capable of killing things :rolleyes:

Scamp
I have found Landywoods meats very different to any pet shop meat.It is made to your order and is from slaughter to frozen in 24hrs or less.I have given some to friends with fussy eaters and on ones dogs have turned thier nose up at it.Fresh mince should not be cooked.
I would suggest you phone Landywoods and ask if they would deliver you a 'sample' for which you would obviously pay as you are not sure if they will eat it.
Archer

I don't feed vomit but feed a raw diet to my dogs :D

For instance my adult bitches - 32Kg + get two chicken carcasses a day (on chicken days) and my 13 month old monster gets five or six (she is around 28 Kg) and very muscular but very skinny and always on the go.  I could increase her food more as she is digesting it well but unless she actually starts looking skeletal I am happy with her fitness level and don't feed to bulk her up as maturity will do that for us. :)