Hi

I'm looking for a clear sable colour border collie or working sheepdog pup. I've contacted the breedlines I know that produce that colour (Avocks, Manderian and Passims) but the earliest litters are at the end of the year. I would like one this year, preferably in the next few months because I have a lot of free time at the moment to train/look after it. Does anyone know of any pups available or litters due now or in the next 3/4 months?? Or any other breedlines with that specific colour??

Please email ana_luv_x@yahoo.com if you have any info, it's been so hard trying to find that colour!!

Thanks

Ana

P.S. I used to be a member on here aaages ago if anyone remembers! but i haven't been on for over a year and it wont let me anymore! :'(

Sable Border Collies are not very common as most breeders would try not to get the colour.  Would you not consider a tri colour?

Here is the link for the Border Collie Club of GB, give the secretary a ring, he holds the puppy lists and may well know the colours. http://bordercollieclub.com

Sandra

Thanks for your reply. I've registered now..

Can I just ask why breeders try not to get the colour??  In the breed standard, it only says that white shouldn't predominate, it doesn't say about any preferred colours etc.. Are there usually health problems with sables or something I should know? I've spoken to some breeders who didn't say there was anything wrong with their sable colour dogs!

Because I think the preferred colours are the classical B & W, Black tri colours  then the other solid colours & tri colours  then the merles & then sables last of all, I don't know why just easier to breed the other colours I think

I do prefer black & white rough coated dogs myself but when judging the dog under the coat comes first(I'm in the minority of judges as I have never owed a KC only registered dog & all mine have been purely from ISDS working dogs & I have worked dogs with sheep too boot)My next dog will hopefully have a white face & may or may not be more white than black & may or may not have a rough coat  but it is the dog & the bloodlines rather than the colour or coat type that I want & he will be all ISDS breeding of course

Hi can I just ask is there a particular reason you would like a sable BC I'm just curious really and not knocking your choice as I like them all :D Owning a blue merle a tri and a blue and white as well as black and white I have nothing against colours ;)

I have nothing against the other colours either. I currently have a tan colour collie cross that does agility, but she has a joint problem so I don't jump her full height and I'm going to retire her soon. I've had her since I was 12, she's my special dog and bestest friend and I'm looking for a collie that looks as close to her as possible to tread in her footsteps. Obviously, its not important if I can't find one.. just would be nice!

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity Ana :D I posted that at silly o'clock in the morning when i almost end up talking to myself. Oz red seems to be the in colour at the moment :)

I know, I think they are really gorgeous the oz red's.. but extremely hard to come by!! I've heard there are currently only 3 in the UK, imported from Australia.. I know one of them is being used as a stud dog, but haven't seen any litters around. If you have, please tell me!!

<<<<Can I just ask why breeders try not to get the colour??  In the breed standard, it only says that white shouldn't predominate, it doesn't say about any preferred colours etc.. Are there usually health problems with sables or something I should know? I've spoken to some breeders who didn't say there was anything wrong with their sable colour dogs! >>>

The reason why people shouldn't breed for a specific(especially if its rare) colour is because conformation,working ability and health should be paramount..not colour.People who breed for 'rare' colours often do so at the neglect of more important things and the dogs end up as pretty colour poor breed examples.
If an unusual colour happens to occur in a liter then so be it but to breed for a rare colour is not a good idea
Archer

flynns dad was a golden sable. hes dead now. but in all the litters he ever had he always had 1 or two sable puppies,except flynns litter where they were all B&W.
im not sure how the colour works genetically but i believe its hard to keep the pigment on lips & nose dark. indeed flynn has pigment that isnt brown /liver but isnt black either.but somewhere in between.
the "oz reds" that are now being imported seem to throw the colour easily.

Thats not always the case with BC show breeders as there have been B&W, Black Tri & Blue Show Champions, but as far as I am aware no Merle(of any any colour, no other colours or Sables have made it to Show Championships & they are rarely placed highly by judges at any level

I must admit to causes a few stirs when I have judged BC's having given a white faced B&W dog BOB, Red Merle bitch BOB, and lordy a Black & Tan smooth coated dog BOB, a complaint went to the KC over the last one not the dog's construction but the colour, the complaint was tossed out by the KC & I only learnt of it when the KC sent me a copy of the complaint & their reply to the complaintants-basically telling them to read the breed standard !

Many breeders have selective bred away from the other colours on the whole whereas in working bred litters(Obedience & ISDS)any colours may turn up

Thats not what I meant...to specifically breeed for ONE 'rare' colour when there are very few around means that dogs which would not normally be considered as 'breeding quality' would be incorporated into a breeding programme due to colour alone.Breeding should not be for 'colour' and when colour becomes more important than other issues it is not good for reulting offspring.
Archer

Archer a lot of show breeders actively breed away from the other colours & have told me so which is just as bad as breedeing solely for the most popular show colours

I'm not in this for an arguement JG :d...I have no problem with breeding for colour if both dogs are good breeding material.What I said was when it is rare colours (not merles etc since I don't consider them rare) then to breed for colour ,examples which would not normally be used are often incorporated due to lack of quality dogs of the required colour.
Archer

LOL I'm not JG either Archer :D

I judge & view BC's as a working breed & therefore colour is the last things I look at after all there are a lot of working BC's that are more white than colour yet the breed standard treats this as a fault, but then it is the Australian standard & not one based on UK BCs

MichelleD knows what breeding my next puppy will be from & odds on it will be a smooth coat, something that is becoming more popular with those who work with BCs on a daily basis with cattle & sheep & the smooths do tend to be better suited to the horrible weather we have been having.

I think the successful half white faced bitch might be prick eared as well. LOL when Steve Hall judged BC's for the first time he decried the lack of a uniform ear carriage & wanted his BC line up to have Rough Collie type ears which do not fall within the breed standard I wish I had been able to show a friends dog under him that works sheep 24/7. he is a half white & half blue smooth coated dog with one prick ear & one semi erect & afterwards I would ask nim for a critique No doubt he would have told me the dog wouldn't have been able to work because of his ears & colouring !!!

Eh? :(

where were you trying to cause a row JG?

Sorry JG meant MM....she obviously realised and replied
Archer

I had this conversation with someon I know who was into colours, adn she realised that she was considering studs for her bitch purely on colour rather than fitting the standard as a good collie.  Eventually she went for a nice Tri colour dog who would complement her bitch, but sadly lost most of the litter due to fading puppy sysdrome.

I think it is quite easy fo fall into ths trap over colour or markings.  Much better when a breed is one recognised colour like Red setters, as even in our own breed (not often) but some people are hung up on too light or too dark colour.

LOL Barbara thats why I prefer ISDS dogs they are bred to work regardless of colour or coat :)

As in all things MM some do and some don't and we could probably swap stories about the less well bred all night ;)

mm,did you watch the live streaming from westminster,they had twosables/oz reds, & a half faced B&W

Funny you should say that but at the moment there is a half white face bitch being shown that has gained her stud book number has a CC and went best in show at the Scottish Border Collie Club Championship show in November 2004 all under Breed specialists I might add :)

I know a friend of mine was there & texted me as soon as she could afterwards as she knows I'm waiting for a white faced boy

Have only just registered but there is a bit of wrong info being given in this thread, there has been a Red Merle show champion, there have also been blue and red merles who have won CC's, there are also blue and white and chocolate and white cc winners, not as prevelant as the black and whites but there have been a few. The Oz red is not the same genetically as Sable, maybe they look alike if the sable is a clear as opposed to shaded,but the genetics are different, as there are so few in the country at present I doubt if many Oz red litters will be around for a while!
regards Karri

i have two blue merle boy dogs and they are gorgeous and my sister has two tri bc all from the same litter to me i think it dosent matter what colour your bc is as long as its healthy and happy