My cavi is 5 months old.  Just wondered what is the right amount of exercise he should be getting per day??  (Bearing in mind we have 2 other dogs - both older - who he plays with in the garden and indoors).

Someone once told me to give 5 minutes per month of age. this includes any play time in the garden with you, any children and other dogs.
Of course they need to spend longer playing in the garden but i wouldnt recommend any road walking until about 1 year.

I disagree completely about the road walking. I believe this is virtually essential for a well balanced, well socialised adult. My puppies go out with me to my dog club, sitting on my lap out of reach of other dogs before they are inoculated. Once the inoculations have had time to take effect it is on the lead and out. The 5 minute rule is not as restrictive as you might think. A couple of minutes walk to the shops on the corner, I then have a rest on the seat outside the shop where my puppy can see traffic, both human and cars, then a walk back home. Yes the puppy has only walked for a short time but it probable spent 20 minutes to half an hour sitting with me watching the sights! Another day I'll put the puppy in the car and take it to the fields of park for a short run off lead. A trip to the farm to see sheep and cattle is another outing.

What I'm aiming for is a puppy who's seen everything! Start with the "Less Frightening" things and gradually scale things up whilst staying close to the 5 minute rule. There is no need to go overboard timing walks to a split second but if I over run a walk by a few minutes then I'll shorten the next walk a little to counterbalance. Remember, It's 5 minutes a month WALKING, the time spent sitting on the style with your puppy sat beside you while you watch the sheep does not count as part of the walk.

Regards, John

Well John you have your methods.
I do take my pups out, they go to the park, to the beach, to the shops, but they are carried over concrete, held in the arms along main roads and allowed to walk slowly on the soft ground after 12 weeks. They dont get a walk much longer than 10 minutes under 20 weeks but its enough for them to just sit on my knee, by a bench and wait for the other dogs to pass.
I was by no means saying "do not allow the dog out of the garden" but more "be sensible, dont over walk on concrete, and socialise responsibly".
I could have worded my first post better. Here is what i missed. I appologise.

It's going to be pretty difficult, to hold a 5 month old, wriggly labrador along a main road!   Whilst your method might be fine for small dogs, I feel that this advice could result in accidents - both to the puppy and the person carrying it!

Margot

What breed do you have Thedark? And what are your reasons for this? To me, the risks of poorly socialised dogs are one of the greatest of all risks. I see no harm at all in walking a very young puppy on concrete once its inoculations are over. 5 minutes per month would equate to nearer 25 minutes walk which is fine.

I am one of the keenest on not over exercising a puppy, knowing the risks as I do of hip displacia. But this risk MUST be balanced with socialising. A puppy needs to see and experience as much as possible. It also needs to build muscle steadily, gradually increasing on work. My feelings are that this applies equally whatever the breed. As an example. A larger breed, such as a Great Dane, out for a ten minute walk, due to it's longer legs, would cover a proportionally shorter distance that for example, a Yorkshire terrier. The Yorkie, being so much lighter than the Great Dane has so much lighter loaded joints so is better able to cover the distance without damage. This is pretty well born out by the fact that by and large it's deemed that small breeds don't need to be hip scored! Looking at the list of BMS's small breeds are conspicuous on their near complete absence.

Regards, John
     

I have a large breed John.
I also hasted to add that my dogs ARE NOT poorly socialised!!! If you were ever lucky enough to meet my lot you would be amazed at how well socialised they are, despite living in the middle of no-where!
I go to painstaking lengths to socialise every puppy i own, they go to training classes, they can and do play with other dogs, old canine friends and new!

I'm not having a go at you Thedark, I asked your reason why you do not walk on concrete. If you dont feel like answering thats ok with me.

John

Road walking is vital for lead-training purposes. Guide dogs are road walked from about 8 weeks of age - not for exercise, but for socialisation.

And why must lead training begin on a road? What is wrong with a busy park where i do all of mine, where the pup learns to ignore distractions and not to try bounding off at every moment?

I start my dogs that way because it suits me. You appear to have the needle with me so I'll let you get on with what you want. It appears that discussion is not your thing.

Why must lead training begin on the road? Because that is where most of the distractions are, that a dog should learn to ignore. Do you have buses and lorries in your busy park?

Most trainers, behaviourists etc will tell you that the window for socialisation closes at about 20 weeks of age, and by then a pup should ideally be reasonably confident with anything he's ever likely to meet.

I dont have a busy road for four miles. I choose to start my dogs off slowly.
I do not road walk because it suits me to play it safe. I would rather have them using hydro therapy to build their muscles while young, yes it is expensive but thats not a problem if its gentle on their joints. My old lass goes three times a week.
I have my methods, you have yours. Maby try not to be so aggressive in future John. I don't know whether its just reading that way but you have come accross as attacking me, rather than discussing the matter with me.

I carry my pups to school from 8 weeks onwards, along busy roads, by the time they've had their innoculations and are able to walk to school, they show no fear what so ever of the road.  My youngest is now 11 weeks old and she walks perfectly happy next to a very busy road!

I also live in a quiet area, so I drive to the nearest town (10 miles) for pavement walking and traffic/crowd socialisation. That way, by the time they're old enough to show (6 months) they're good on the lead and not phased by crowds.

If it works for the Guide Dogs, who have more need to be fit and healthy than most pet dogs (physically and mentally), then that's good enough for me.

I'm sorry thedark but most pups will live in the real world.  Maybe this is why I see so few dogs walked around town???  Except the ones owneed by the homeless who all seem remarkeably well adjusted and obedient.

I don't drive so my dogs walk everywehre with me.  Can be quite a nuisance with a youndster that can't go too far.  Mine have to walk to get to training classes, the Vets etc.

Now my dogs are bomb proof around traffic arte a breeeze to take on the Bus or Train, which I do quite often.

I have had first hand experience of the softly softly method of socialising with the litter sister to my usual as expected bomb proof youngest.  Yes she didn't like traffic at first and would dig her heels in, but with a combination of ecouragement, cajoling, and showing her that being obdurate would get her nowhere she is as bomb proof as any.  Now hewr sister was the same but her owners prefered to take her to quiet places etc.  Well at 5 months I had to take her in hadn as she flatly refused to walk down their road, as she wanted to go down the quiet footpath instead.

After weeks of amking her and her nervous elderly companion come to the high street, sit outsdie Iceland and see how much fun mine had with all the people fussing them, they both started looking forward to these walks.

For 10 years the older dog had not liked being petted and was very nervous of big traffic, so when she did have to face it she was miserable, now she actually enjoys her walks even if it means going to the High street.

Time and gain my dogs are complimented on hwo good they are when out, well that is because this is normal day to day stuff for them, and I am no great trainer.

When back in england my dogs stay with my mother, who lives on a main road that leads to a motorway. They do not act any differently around the busy roads.
I have, however, had one puppy that has been terrified of the big red post box near her house.

As i said before, it works for me. Now you can have your beliefs but you have never met my dogs and seen how they do react to every day traffic, bangs, etc etc.

We live 40 miles from an RAF base. We have Jets flying over daily at mach 0.9. Never once have i had a god cower, cry or even jump.

If i were able i would take my dogs to the cities and force an 8 week puppy to face the cars, lorries, bustling crowds and other "real world" noises. Maby i'll try it when im next back in England.

I have to agree with John and Jg on this one there's a  first for everything ;)

I didnt road walk one of my bull mastiff's,could barely lift him as a pup! I'm now paying the price,whenever we go near a road,he jumps at every passing car,forget a big loud truck,he hides behind my legs :(
One of the reasons i didnt take him on the road was because it WAS too loud,for me and thought for him too,not to mention the smog and polution etc. etc.

But if i had to do it over again,i would definately road walk,hips didnt even cross my mind,they can damage them in plenty of other ways besides walking on concrete. You just cant compare the hussle and bussle of a busy street to the surrealness of the local park,he got PLENTY of park walks but they didnt prepare him for busy street life :(

I consider that YOU were attacking ME Thedark! We are trying to inform a guest on how much exercise to give a puppy. In the UK it is virtually impossible to get a puppy to a park or field without going on concrete and as far as I am aware there is no study to show that it is undesirable! Moreover I believe it to be in the interest of the dog to gently socialise it to ALL things.

John

So basically you are saying i am wrong for keeping my dogs in grassy or sandy areas in an attempt to protect their hips and am depriving them of vital socialisation for doing so?

It is wrong of me to carry my pups to a bench and have them sit and watch the world go by and experience main roads, other people passing and so on?

I give up.

I will change my practices immediately and take your methods as gospel.
Good day.

<<If i were able i would take my dogs to the cities and force an 8 week puppy to face the cars, lorries, bustling crowds and other "real world" noises.>>

Hang on The dark, first it was concrete you were against walking your dog on, now it is anything involved with roads! You talk like you have some sort of hang-up about roads! You may have problems with traffic in your country but over there we have to live with it! The density of housing here means that roads are a fact of life and unless you are intending to keep your dog in your garden for life it has to learn about cars.

  Early in this thread, before you started shouting at me, I asked you a question. In view of your posts I'll repeat what I posted, word for word.

I'm not having a go at you Thedark, I asked your reason why you do not walk on concrete. If you dont feel like answering thats ok with me.

I'm still waiting an answer to that but I figure in view of the tenor of your posts that you don't want to answer it.

John

<<It is wrong of me to carry my pups to a bench and have them sit and watch the world go by and experience main roads, other people passing and so on?>>

I draw your attention to my very first post on here!

You appear to have some sort of a problem Thedark. I would suggest you get that chip off of your shoulder.

John

I am intrigued by your view on road walking the dark :)  Having a large breed myself, and knowing how quickly they get big and heavy, how do you cope when they have gone beyond the window of being able to be carried?  I'm honestly not having a pop at you, just asking how you manage :)  I think of the size/weight my boys were at, say, 10 months and I can't imagine how we would have coped if we hadn't road walked them :D 

Thank you

Lesley

Good point, Lesley! My medium-sized breed is past a tolerable carrying weight by 4 months! Besides, most trainers will tell you that it's not good for smaller breeds to be carried too much, because it's not good for their inter-dog development skills - they get ideas above their station. They need to be on the ground, where all the interesting smells and learning experiences are.
:)

Hi thedark,

What happened to your earlier dictat about taking things to pm?    Or was that just for everyone else :rolleyes:

Now you've managed to start a row with John (how'd you do a halo round his name :D) but decided to plaster it all over the forum.   Makes me wonder how you think the CD's board managed before you joined a mere four days ago.

>I will change my practices immediately and take your methods as gospel<

You could certainly do worse than emulate his manners ;)

Teri

I'm just having a quiet smile re the avoidance of walking on concrete protecting a puppy's hips, my German GSD import dog spent 6 months on nothing, but concrete(due to the quarantine regs).Did it affect his hips ? Well his score was 0:0=0, I leave it up to you to decide if the concrete was bad for his hips(& yes he was a 13 week old puppy when he arrived here)

Likewise our imported Elkhound pup (who came in at 9 1/2 weeks) who spent the last 3 months on hid hind legs as he got two rather voacl neighbours half way through his term (a dog and bitch GSD :D), and he was also carrying too much weight.  We were a bit worried about what his hips would end up being like and the result was 3/3 = 6 (breed Mean 14 and Median 12). :D

Well, My Anna was a 2/2 so I figure I must be getting something right! ;) (BMS 15, Median 10)

Regards, John

I'm just wondering what thedark does in the summer, when (we hope) here in England mere grassland goes as hard as concrete if we're lucky - where do their young dogs get excercised then?