Does any know which brand of dog food made of without any animal derivatives or animal by-products ?

Because one of my american friend's dog had tumour due to the IAMS dog food which contain animal derivatives and I am little worry about my dog

Regards

Ricky

Perhaps it would be wise not to ascribe the cause of any serious condition to a named brand of food, unless you have absolutely watertight proof that the food was indeed to blame.

Eaglepack holistic dry food,you can check it out at www.postalpets.co.uk 
I cannot reccomend this food highly enough,it has excellent ingredients with out the "mystery meats" that alot of the big dog foods add to their foods such as:by-products-grain fractions-wheat widdlings-,peanut hulls-meat/animal derivatives etc. and all sorts of suspect ingredients which can change from batch to batch,hence the reason why the manufactures label the ingredients on the packages in this unscruplious fashion in the first place!!!
I prefer the dog food i feed to be of the same quality in each bag.

It doesnt surprise me in the least that your friends dog died eating a product with derivatives and by-products etc. included,who knows what these poor dogs are eating,we as customes surely do not!

I must stress that there is nothing wrong with FRESH by-products such as heart,lungs,liver etc.

Without cast-iron proof that the tumour (benign or malignant?) was caused by eating a particular food (and how would that be proven?) it's unwise to 'name names' in public because of the possibility of legal action for libel.

I**ms,Pedi**ee  etc. are bagged and knocked to no end at ALL the other websites i belong to(this one being the less frequented of them all :( ) and no-one has ever mentioned not mentioning brand names,this is the only place people have said to "watch out". Champdogs is extremely mild when it comes to knocking foods compared to alot of the other sites i belong to.I think the big name pet foods would have targeted them a LONG time ago if it actually was a problem. Besides all they gotta do is pump another few million bucks into their advertising campaigns and people will soon forget about all the bad stuff said about them!

Not every pet owner continuously and relentlessly researches pet foods like some of us,well me anyway,and i think it is our duty to inform other less experienced owners on the perils of feeding some of the garbage foods available out there!
And if that means naming names,then so be it,how else are we supposed to identify the bad foods?Canine nutrition is not something i like to pussyfoot around or sugarcoat,there are not many more important things to a dogs health than good nutrition.This is just a small website on the world wide web,i don think we have anything to worry about :) Like i said what's said here is nothing compared to heaps of other sites.

>Champdogs is extremely mild when it comes to knocking foods compared to alot of the other sites i belong to

and long may it remain so!  All the other sites go way over the top this case being a good example, I personally feel that attributing cancer to additives is a long shot particularly as the additives are always well below the permitted levels but now attributing it to derivatives!  The number of web sites knocking the large food manufacturers has no bearing on the truth as all the sites seem to be run by the anticapitalist/antiglobalisation brigade some of whom will have animal welfare concerns (although often on a different level to you or I) but many will have a completely different agenda altogether.  When you say you have done continuous and relentless research into pet foods do you mean you have trawled through these web sites or have you done any literature searches in the relevent peer reviewed journals or even any original scientific research using several animals over their life times in controlled conditions?

Isabel i think i have just about every book under the sun on canine nutririon,literally hundreds.
I have done studys on my own dogs and watched others over the years,comaparing supermarket brands to super premium to home cooked to raw etc. Hence why i will never,ever reccomend a supermarket brand and vets products coming in a close second:(

It also doesnt take a genius to read an ingredient list on a product and realise what is good and what is not!

When i'm on the computer it is usually trawling sites re: canine nutrition,infact that's all i do when i'm on the puter,but i do reserve the right to make my own mind up in the end.I admit i am obseesed with this subject and i'm not ashamed to admit that i am a *dog food snob* :D and i do research every single ingredient independantly before i put it in my dogs bowls.

>It also doesnt take a genius to read an ingredient list on a product and realise what is good and what is not!

It certainly doesn't ;) don't you think others are capable of doing that too and making our own judgements.
I'm afraid all sorts of trendy ideas about diet have made it into books if a publisher smells money they will print it :) a lot more credence can be given to the appropriate journals in my view.  We all observe our dogs' conditions on whatever we are feeding but that is not the same as scientific research.
By all means draw whatever conclusions you wish to form from your "research" but I don't believe you have a "duty to inform other less experienced owners on the perils of feeding some of the garbage foods available out there!" 

Try here...

                http://www.askcarla.com/answers.asp?QuestionandanswerID=234

  And here...

                http://www.iamscruelty.com/iams-feat-petguard.asp

   And here...

                   http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=34

Harbingers of a New Age
(completely vegan)
www.vegepet.com
available in the UK through the Vegan Society
01424 427393
www.vegansociety.com

HTH :)

Having read on the P*TA website that they recommend people abduct other people's pets and have them neutered, I'm afraid I have grave doubts about that organisation. :(

Oh Jeangenie, thats a whole other debate :) They can be quite millitant but they do alot of good aswell. :)

I'm afraid they're all tarred with much the same brush as far as I'm concerned. Shame, but mud sticks. :(

PETA allegedly uses LESS than 1% of it's income to actually aid animal care & rescue, who knows what happens to the rest.
They are a business, not a charity and their long term aim is to ban ALL ownership of pets. This has been demonstrated in the neutering of kidnapped pets & the release of kidnapped pets into the countryside.

They are an extremist organisation and do NOTHING for the good of animals!

Exactly. If they have articles advocating stealing other people's animals on their own website, it must be official policy. :(

'Does any know which brand of dog food made of without any animal derivatives or animal by-products ?'

Animal byproducts and animal derivatives are two different things in my book. Animal byproducts are meats such as tripe, lungs, liver, hearts, wings, etc etc etc. Animal derivatites are things such as feathers, blood, s**t of the floor that are a derivate of the animal! I know which I would prefer to feed.

Tell my dogs to stop eating feathers from where a chicken's been plucked! ;)

:D I'm not too concerned about the source as long as the dogs find it palatable, everything they need nutritionally is there and they thrive on it.  Bearing in mind UK dog food has to be fit for human consumption, I don't mind if they don't :)

You just cannot compare fresh feathers and by-products to the slush found in pet foods which IS UNFIT for human and in my opinion animal consumption.

Isabel you will be hard pressed to find a study that is NOT funded by one of the big pet food players,they have the power to stop anything in it's tracks! And they are not about to fund a study on holistic V conventional foods etc.,why would they,it would open the eyes of alot of uninformed pet owners!

And i still think it is our duty to inform less educated or new pet owners of the good and bad in the pet food industry,to know and not to tell is in my opinion ignorant and irresponsible.I know if i were unknowingly feeding a crap/inferior food,i would be grateful if someone told me and steered me in the right direction!

Isabel said "i'm not too concerned about the source as long as they find it palatable" well that says alot about your stance on canine nutrition :(

My dogs find cat sh*t palatable,you wont find me serving it up to them for their dinner!!

>they are not about to fund a study on holistic V conventional foods etc.

why would they, all they need to do is research whether the food is safe and nutritious in the same way as conventional medicine does not have to be tested against alternatives just that it is safe and effective.  What does holistic mean by the way I would have thought that a rather good term for complete diets?

>i still think it is our duty to inform less educated or new pet owners of the good and bad in the pet food industry,to know and not to tell is in my opinion ignorant and irresponsible

How patronising, how well educated are you, do you have a scientific qualification?  Disseminating these sort of horror stories about "chemicals" etc would be harmless were it not for the fact that people like the OP are left feeling that their choice of food has led to the death of their dog by cancer when of course the most likely explanation is unfortunately that cancer just happens.

>"i'm not too concerned about the source as long as they find it palatable

of course the full quote was "I'm not too concerned about the source as long as the dogs find it palatable, everything they need nutritionally is there and they thrive on it." but off course people can see for themselves what you have done there :)

Ignorance is bliss Luvvy!! I shall leave you to wallow in it.
It's a huge waste of energy talking with you!Judging by this post and most of your others, Isabel you would argue a fly upon your nose and i am not going to get drawen into one of your pointless arguments.

Seeing you asked a question of me,  Holistic dry food is a food with human grade ingredients,no by-products and no ingredients that you leave you scratching your head and definately no derivatives,maybe a few WHOLE grains down the list et. See izzy you learn something new everyday,i knew i'd teach you something :D But i have also given up on educating someone who doesnt want to be,so go argue with someone else,i deal with enough of that from the school kids i work with everyday!

Maybe you could answer a Q for me,why is it that the feeding forum is the least used at this site? Does this not tell you something :rolleyes:

Seeya,wouldnt wanna be ya ;)

>Maybe you could answer a Q for me,why is it that the feeding forum is the least used at this site? Does this not tell you something

It tells me that nobody's yet had a dog even come close to dying of malnutrition. (And by 'malnutrition' I don't mean 'starvation'; I purposely gave it its literal meaning.)
:)

and it tells me Jeangenie, that the majority of people are happy with what they feed and find their dogs thrive on it, no problems = no posts :)

Yep Isabel - that seems to sum it up.
:)

Perhaps the other thing you will have noticed about my posts I never resort to personal insults :) however, I shan't ask Admin to remove your post under the TOS because I believe it says rather more about you than me :)
My interpretation of a holistic food would be one that contains all the necessary nutrients with no need for supplements ;)

Well we have to agree to disagree on that one. Perhaps you should open your mind a little,because a holistic food is definately NOT what you think it is. Un-natural preservatives such as ethoxiquin-bha-bht,are all known cancer causing preservatives,rendered by-products,animal/meat derivatives,grain fractions,abboitoir floor scrapings,hooves,beaks, fecal matter,industry castoffs,rancid restaurant grease,pretty much anything that is unfit from the human industries and they can make extra bucks selling to pet food manufactures and it has been proven that euthanised dogs and cats have been ground up and put into pet foods(mainly u.s brands)Absolutely None of these belong or are found in reputable holistic foods! Holistic brands also use ingredients* fit* for human consumption that we ourselves could happily eat,some of them even use nothing but organically grown ingredientsmeat and all.

So can you see the difference now?

May i ask where and what i said that insulted you??
I go by the premise that i dont say things to people that would offend me personally if they said the same thing to me,but i'm starting to realise that not everyone has a thick skin like me :)

Meaning of holistic, complete convenience dog foods definately does not come under holistic :)
http://www.naturalholistic.com/handouts/petcare.htm
http://www.alternativevet.org/holistic_medicine.htm

Christine, Spain.

It's just an adjective, Christine, like wholesome or generous, surely you can use it anywhere where it seems appropriate why should just one group claim it just as their own :)

It deals with the entire body/patient Isabel. With regards nutrition & food it means organic & like you say wholesome food. Convenience dog food is not wholesome, I mean how can it be when it`s having additives, vits etc added to it?
As to why should one group claim it, is because the majority of people accept what holistic describes. But if you don`t agree with its description & want to use it define something else, then feel free, but I doubt you`ll persuade many people of your definition of holistic, well not me anyway :)

*emphasizing the organic or functional relation between parts and the whole*

Christine, Spain.
  

When a nurse talks about giving holistic care she is not talking about organic, wholemeal or anything along those lines she is talking about taking all aspects of her patients needs into consideration ie physical, psychological, spiritual so you see the word is not just used in one way and and like any other adjective I don't see why it has to be.  Personally I think it applies very well to complete foods which take care of all nutritional needs.  I know you don't think so :) but to me complete foods are very much "wholesome" ie all elements are there to meet my dogs needs additives within safe levels have never worried me and I not worried how the vitamins get there so long as there are in the correct amounts, don't some raw feeders add vitamins in supplement form?
PS I wasn't actually saying wholesome, generous in connection with complete foods (although of course they can apply :)) I was just using them as other examples of adjectives that can have a different meaning to different people.

Use it whenever or wherever you see fit then Isabel, I`ll just remember when you do use the word holistic concerning dog food it won`t have the same meaning as mine :)

Christine, Spain.

Good solution Christine :) and vice versa of course ;)

That doesn`t mean we`d be agreeing on something.....????? ;) :D

Christine, Spain.

:D

Holistic definition. Nothing to do with organic or wholesome.

Depends which reference you use J/G ;) :)
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/holistic
[link]http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:Holistic[/link]

Christine, Spain.

Oh Christine don't start me on the highjacking of the word organic :D I have a feeling your interpretation will not be the same!

Now Isabel we`ll have people talking, looks like we agree on something else as well!!!!! :D :D :D

Christine, Spain.

Don't worry Christine I'm sure there are some areas left that we can continue to disagree on :D

It also depends on your definition of 'organic' too. Strictly speaking, it means 'derived from living organisms' - so in theory beaks, feathers and poo are organic ...

Aren't words wonderful? :D

LOL@J/G :D :D
Sat giggling to meself this morning with you & Isabels post, yep words are great....also amazing how we each differentiate their meanings :)

Christine, Spain.

Many chemicals in both food stuffs and the environment are harmful if they exceed safe levels that is why their use is tightly regulated to ensure they remain well below the recommended levels.  All dog food in the UK is fit for human consumption of course it contains many things that we would not eat ourselves particularly as people have become more and more squeamish many people eat little more that chicken breasts these days :)
I can't see why my interpretation of holistic is any less valid than yours.
We will continue to disagree, you seem determined to "educate" me without any debate just a determination that I am in the wrong for not just accepting your view of things.  Is it so long since you were at college that you cannot remember that that approach is not acceptable amongst adults in fact I doubt the parents of your pupils would be happy to read your previous post and I sincerely hope you do not call them ignorant or childish names when they are unwilling to accept everything you say without question.

Yes but isabel i accept i am dealing with children at school and treat their innocent ignorance as it should be with a little patience and understanding, BUT when i get the same attitude from a grown up than i dont have much patience and understanding ;)

I do not understand why you will not accept the term holistic as it has been explained, and with the links kindly provided to you. I explained above, the things that DO NOT belong in a holistic food,or would it make more sense to you to call it a *natural* food?? The things that are not found or wanted are usually found in the "convential" commercial foods,the industry needs someone who will buy their cast off's.

i assume you feed pedigree or something similar?? To end this debate why dont you post the ingredients to your food and i shall post the ones from mine,than it should be glaringly obvious!

By the way you still havnt told me how i insulted you???????????

To be honest Rose, if you genuinely can't see for yourself how rude and patronising your post of 22.59 yesterday actually was, and you're an adult, there's no way you're going to understand if anyone told you!

To extrapolate your point, why can't you accept Isabel's (and the dictionary's) definition of 'holistic'? If she should accept yours, then you should accept hers. Fair's fair.

Jean did you mean 21:59? i cant find a 22:59. If so then you must mean the ignorance is bliss??
Judging by the feel i get, i have to stand by that one.It would be much easier for me to ignore the ingredients,not know where they come from and could possibly do to my dogs etc, etc. so yes it would be bliss to be ignorant :)

No, I meant the 'Luvvy' and 'See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya'.

Would you say that to your Head Teacher? If not, why say it to anyone else? As I said, if you can't understand how rude that is, there's no point in explaining.

And no, I meant the time it says on the post. BST. I can't get it to change, no matter how many times I alter it.

Looks like you were right, Jeangenie :(
Who said I am ignoring the ingredients I have already said I am not worried about additives that are within safe limits, I am perfectly aware they are there I just don't agree with you about whether they are detrimental or not.
I am also not too worried about you calling me ignorant repeatedly as I say that rather reflects on you rather than me, perhaps you should have a look at some of Christine's post, someone who feels passionately about these things and indeed holds similar views to yourselves but always debates them in an adult way never resorted to childish insults.  I hope you are very different in front of the children :)

Keeping bringing up the kids,if that's all you can come up with :rolleyes: And you dont think thats a sly attempt at an insult??????????

I really admire christine for her patience and her ability to look over certain things,and also tohme,who for *obvious* reasons doesnt bother at ALL anymore :(

If all complete foods were holistic than dont you think the manufactures would jump on the bandwagon and print it on their bag?It would surely bump their products up in the consumers eyes,but alas they are not holistic or natural so therefore they cannot state it on their bags!

So are you going to post the ingredients or not? No need to be embarrased ;)

I suppose it is a bit of an insult, and I appologise if I hurt you, but it does puzzle me that someone in education cannot accept that different views can be equally valid.
I've never known Christine "look over certain things" she always seems to tell it how it is :)
I'm rather glad complete foods don't jump on bandwagons :) they clearly don't feel they need to bump their products up but I don't see why they shouldn't use the term if they wanted to, as we have already explored it has several meanings and some of them could certainly be applied but I suppose they are perfectly happy with the term complete which says it all to me.
I can't be bothered to go downstairs and check actual ingredients but I can't see why I would be embarrased I have already said I feed additives and preservatives both of which I have no qualms about as long as they are within safe limits which in the UK is a fraction of the recognised harmfull levels.  The additives are there to ensure my dogs get the recommended levels of minerals and vitamins, not too little and equally not too much and the preservatives are there to ensure that so long as my dogs take a reasonable amount of time to munch their way through the bag the said minerals and vitamins will remain there for them in the appropriate amounts I therefore have no wish to avoid these elements.
Now if I have said anything you wish to debate please do but please refrain from accusing me of ignorance for not just accepted your way of seeing it :)

Hi Rose, I chosse to ignore certain things cos I juct don`t see the point of going round in circles with regular posters who hold different views than me. Not to say I haven`t done it in the past when I was new to internet but have been on here a while now & know a few posters ways. I`m not going to change them & why should I? Like us they`re entitled to their opinions/ways. I`ve had a bit of a laugh with Isabel & J/G, got my point over just as well as they have & its ended on a lighter note & we`ll all go on to post & debate things another day ;) :)

Christine, Spain

I certainly remember a time when you used to press your arguement more vigorously, Christine :), but I never remember you flinging insults and you always could tell the difference between ignorance, lack of understanding and holding a different point of view.  You are right though this thread is just going over the same old ground that has been covered again and again I hope Rose you will take Christine's advise and allow us to each have our own opinions and ways of doing what we believe is right for our dogs whatever that is because I am sure we will all agree that all the posters on Champdogs very much have their dogs interests at heart :)