Bit of a tricky one this.  One of our fellow exhibitors has a bitch who has her JW and also recently her Show cert of merit.  They post all their results on their website and after looking through the results it seems that they haven't calculated the points correctly - therefore shouldn't be claiming these awards.   They also have a 7 month old bitch (different breed) who they say is already half way towards her JW - but doesn't seem possible as it has only entered one breed class , all the others have been AV's.   Do the kennel club check the points claimed, if so, they must somehow be right, but if not, would you say anything or just let sleeping dogs lie?   After all, doesn't the JW give the dog a stud book number?

sarah

Hi Sarah,

No offence intended here but you do ask :P

Firstly, they may not have all results updated on their website
Secondly, if it were me, I'd mind my own business on it.

There's more than enough bitching and back stabbing going on in the show world :rolleyes:  If you really CAN'T keep the information to yourself, why not *privately* contact the owner directly and advise them where you think they've gone wrong?  At least that way they will either be able to put the record straight if they have made a mistake or put rumours to bed if others have misjudged them.

Regards, Teri ;)

Surely the KC would check before awarding the JW and mreit cert?
Archer

Well yes, I would have thought so.  The reason for questioning any of their results is a comment made at the weekend when they said their puppy now had half her points towards JW, the first show was at LKA and they've only been to one breed class with her, the other shows have been AVNSC or AV.   I'm not trying to stir up trouble for them but maybe it's me that doesn't understand the awarding of points?

Open shows also count towards JW, maybe they have been to some that you didnt know about?

I would like to think so, that could explain things.   So, do wins in AVNSC and AV classes count towards JW points?   I know that AVNSC classes count for show cert of merit.

Sarah,

For someone who is now purporting to be enquiring out of general interest, why did your opening post remark on the results published on their website about their other dog >"after looking through the results it seems that they haven't calculated the points correctly - therefore shouldn't be claiming these awards"< ?  Or remark that JW title counts for >"entry into the stud book after all"< ?    I can't imagine any reason an exhibitor would have an interest in counting up the points or qualifications of dogs having nothing to do with them - do you perhaps keep records on behalf of the Breed Club for publication in their Year Book or write for the weekly dog press reviewing annual awards for your breed?

If none of the above, perhaps you have an interest in qualifying for a JW with your own dog, in which case why not look up the KC's website and ascertain what you need to do?

It is entirely possible that these exhibitors have shown at open shows well outwith their local area of which you are totally unaware - I can only assume that you are relatively new to the world of dog showing and therefore unaware of how easily your questioning of another exhibitor's successes could be seen as offensive and unsporting. 

Regards, Teri

Ok then Teri, point taken - keep my nose out of their comprehensive list of shows from every weekend available for all to see on a website.  Say nothing and show no interest in trying to learn more about kennel club awards.  And for information, I don't make a habit of 'counting points' and reporting anything to dog press or kennel club.   My dog is too old for JW but half way towards cert of merit - or so I thought unless I've mis-calculated.   Sorry for any offence - first posting was to ask the exhibitors themselves, certainly not to make any accusations or reports to kc.

Don't worry Sarah...I'm sure the KC will double check any claims.Maybe this person has made a mistake in either working out their points or has misundersood the scoring system.The other possible is that maybe they just want to 'sound good'
Archer

Hi Sarah,

I'm not in the habit of responding to posts to make a point or to cast aspersions on anyone :o therefore if I misread your intentions I apologise. 
Your use of the phrase >" keep my nose out of their comprehensive list of shows from every weekend available for all to see on a website"< does little to project your interest in the people about whom you are writing in a friendly manner nor in one merely seeking to further their personal knowledge of the show scene.

A simple question on the forum asking about how to go about winning a JW would have been more appropriate, don't you think?  Which for reference purposes is a total of 25 points gained between the ages of 6 and 18 months, 3 points minimum of which must be one at each of a Champ Show with CCs on offer and an Open Show and yes, the KC do check.

Regards, Teri ;)

Teri,
I agree that my original post should have been worded differently ie a question about the 'points system' as it was never my intention to report these people.   They are fellow exhibitors and friends who we have known since we starting showing about 2 years ago - they have been in the show scene just slightly longer.  I was just a little surprised at what they said about their youngest dog as I've seen them at most shows and reallly don't think it's right, but at the end of the day, it's their business and I'm not about to go running to the KC or spreading tittle tattle.   Basically, I wanted to know whether to say anything to them - just to explain how these things are worked out - sorry if I sounded like a professional nosey parker :)

regards

sarah 

I can't believe how aggressive this reply is, it's totally out of context to the original enquiry and thoroughly uncalled for.  I can only suppose Teri that yourself aren't too honest and hence don't like other people's questions in case one day you yourself come under scrutiny.  I'd also bet that you'd be one of the first running to the KC if someone's elses mistakes, deliberate or not, affected you in some way.  

I've only been coming on this site a short while and am already thoroughly sick of the way that topics get turned into arguments and I can't believe the amount of unpleasant aggressive people on here. 

What a waste of time!  I was warned before joining that this is what it's like on here, should have listened.

It's aggressive posts like yours that are uncalled-for, Rudi. All those assumptions, and all that name-calling!

A friend of mine's dog just got his ShCM & she sent the application with all the information & had to wait until the KC received the marked catalogue from the last show-which means the KC do check douments

the KC sent my friend her O.W before she d even sent her form off!!!! so they must be checking somewhere!!!!

"the KC is watching youuuuu!!"

The tone of your post matches your name Rudi!

Disbelief, supposition, assumption, wagering, time squandering, inability to listen to warnings ..... and all this when suffering from nausea about how aggressive people on here are :(  You're having a tough time aren't you?

On the plus side, Rudi, you wear your name well.

Regards, Teri  ;)

To be honest Sarah I would forget all about it, if you say anything it will be taken as being sour grapes. 

If there is a miscalculation then at some point the KC will pick up on it.

I don't know how long you have been showing, but I am afraid that if you say anything to anyone about this and you are relatively new to the ring, then you will be tarred with a brush that will take a long time to shift.

To claim a JW or ShCM you have to complete a KC form detailing all the wins which qualify you for the award. The KC then check this and, if it's all kosher, you get your certificate.

You can download the form from the KC web site and it has instructions on which classes qualify. As the previous poster said, you do have to list all the shows attended and details of the class entered as well as the placing.

i wouldnt say anything sarah,im sure the KC do check up.
also i wouldnt want to drop anyone in it with the KC,as you never know how far it will go.!!!!!
if the are "cheating" it will be found out & if they are not then its all ok anyway!

Many years ago a friend of mine in another breed was accused by somebody of reporting a third person to the KC. For many years nobody would have anything to do with my friend in the showing world. The truth was her accuser was the one who had reported the person to the KC. So any posting like this can easily start speculation and lead to a situation like my friend found herself in.