Does anyone out there know what the T.R.O.T permit entails? my closest woods allow horses 'by permit only' and there's this T.R.O.T thing underneath. I don't ride, but I walk my dogs in these woods and Dylan's not too well behaved with horses at the mo. As much as possible I go to any of the other 3 woods around, which don't allow horses, but this one is right across the road, so doesn't entail driving. He mainly just runs around them in circles, and has gotten out of the barking bit. I must add that in the 2 years I've been walking him there I've only come across 6 horses, and 3 times I managed to get him back on his lead before he saw them.

Basically, does the T.R.O.T permit require the rider and horse to be fully competent so that if, for example, a dog runs around it's feet it's not going to throw its rider and bolt? I don't want to cause any accidents, but at the same time I don't want to stop using my local/favorite woods. Also, are horses allowed on footpaths? These particular woods have 'bridleways' and 'footpaths' and although I stick to the footpaths as much as possible (less muddy and more interesting) I've noticed that horses use them too.

Thanks for any help  :-)

As far as I can see, a TROT permit is simply a permit to ride through the forest/use the trail, there's no measure of compentancy http://www.tollrides.org.uk/apply.pdf  However - it might be worth contacting them and ensuring YOU have permission to take a dog on this land, as riders aren't allowed to take dogs on toll routes, and they may not be expecting to encounter a dog whose not socialised to horses.

Basically, does the T.R.O.T permit require the rider and horse to be fully competent so that if, for example, a dog runs around it's feet it's not going to throw its rider and bolt?

Doesn't matter how competant the horse and rider are. Many a highly competant rider and experienced horse have come unstuck with dogs. A horse is a big, unpredictable, prey animal who's instinct is for flight.

It can often be a series of events that can trigger a reaction, even amongst the most safe horses. A pheasant can go up, then a gun, then a dog and then the rider is in trouble.

Personally, I don't think you should walk your dog off lead near horses until he has been socialised with them - he could easily get killed if he gets kicked.

To me it doesn't matter whether the rider is competent or not, if you let your dog run loose around ridden horses, if it is not horse proof, then you are at fault.

There was a case here recently of a very experienced rider who came upon someone exercising three Rottweillers, one of the rotts, decided to run under her horse's feet (not maliciously), the horse reared, she came off, and ended up in Addenbrookes with severe head injuries, I don't know the outcome of this as yet, but would assume that the dog owners could well be sued by the rider, as not having her dog under control.

Thanks Digger, I had a look at that site and it was pretty helpful. I was a bit confused at the bit on the application form that said you weren't allowed to take dogs, but then it said that if you did take dogs then they must be under control?? Maybe I misread it.

Dogs are allowed in these particular woods, and as I have said I've only seen them on 6 occassions. The 3 occassions that I got dylan back on was when we were on specific 'bridleways' which give a much greater distance of view so you can see horses well ahead of time. The other 3 times I was minding my business on the 'footpaths', which I assumed should be horse free. The first time this happened I have to say I was absolutely mortified and very embarrased. Needless to say I was also scolded by the woman on the horse (admittedly the horse was a bit skitty and dylan was barking at the poor thing) and she said I shouldn't be allowed to walk my dog if I couldn't control him around horses. I agreed and apologised profusely and no harm was done. However, after my heart had stopped racing and was re-thinking the scenario at home, I realised I was actually on a footpath. So was I actually to blame?

(the other 2 times Dylan went up to the horses and followed them for a while. The riders were very good when I explained that he wasn't used to horses, and these woods are the only time he sees them. Since them he's been a lot better, although I'll still always put him back on when I see them coming!)

I'm not sure I understand...

Are you saying there are horses being ridden on the footpaths in this wood - if so, then I would imagine they are allowed under the tollride scheme? Normally, responsible riders only stick to bridleways and roads.

Its also worth remembering that riders these days are struggling to find places to ride :( I gather some Bridleways are disappearing in place of all access pathways that include access for motorised vehicles - and thats not good for horses or dogs!

My horses are very good with dogs, but I have to say its not a pleasant experience to have one chasing round the ankles and nipping.

Yes, horses are being ridden on the 'footpaths' in these woods. This is where I'm confused as well. There are definite signs that say 'bridleway' and 'footpath' but the horses go on both. Does this mean that people aren't allowed on bridleways but are only allowed on footpaths and horses are allowed on both?? I always thought that on OS maps footpaths didn't allow horses or bikes, and you were only allowed to walk on footpaths with feet.

I completely appreciate that having dogs run around your horses feet would be a dreaded nuisance, but I am reluctant to stop using the 'footpaths' if I am totally within my rights to use them and expect them to be horse free. I know Dylan would chase a sheep if he saw one in the woods, but they aren't there so I don't need to worry about that! If horses aren't allowed on footpaths I shouldn't have to worry about them being there either surely...?

By the way, the woods in question are part of the forestry commission, which allow dogs etc. I think the private/farm T.R.O.T routes are designated specifically for horses (well that's what I can figure out anyway)

Dogs and people can walk on bridleways...horses shouldn't go on footpaths but I guess its dependent on the owner fo the woods. It sounds like horseriders pay for access?

Hmmm... i might phone the forestry comission people or the trot people about that. Apart from the time I actually saw the horse on the footpath there's always hoofprints and horse poo on them, so it's not just a one off thing. If they are allowed anywhere then I think I'll try and stay away as much as possible!

Thanks for all your help  :-)

p.s. yes, horse riders pay for access through this T.R.O.T thing

Sorry don't know what a TROT permit is and I'm probably hijacking your post but do horse and rider need to be insured when riding on the road. Last weekend we passed some horses, very very slowly ( I used to ride all the time when I was younger and had a bad experience when some sports car came whizzing past me on a country lane so am very concious when driving past horses) anyway one of the horses became spooked and has made quite a dent on the car(horse OK) the girl riding on the horse was only young and her dad who we contacted said he'd pay for the damage. Long tale for a short question. Thanks in anticipation of a reply

I don't think they have to be insured by law, but sensible/responsible owners certainly have 3rd party liability.

can't imagine the dad would even try to wriggle out of it - I know I wouldn't :)

I grew up around horses and I agree with Chloe about the irrelevance of competent riders on a spooked horse. However, it is not always the dog owners fault. Last weekend my boyfriend and I were 'sledding' through the woods when we saw a horse up ahead. Both of my dogs would bark at a horse, so we got off the bikes and turned them into us so they couldn't see the horse go past. Just as the rider drew level with us, she stopped to talk to someone!!! I was stuggling by this point and my bf asked her if she would mind moving on. She apologised and rode past, but I was amazed she hadn't even noticed us. I mean, two adults, three dogs and two bikes aren't hard to miss! Still, it provided us with a few good laughs later on. :D