Hi all - I have a 14 week old Flattie pup.  She is on Naturediet.  I also give a probiotic.  In the mornings she performs quite normal solid poos, but then the next one will be 30% loose.  She's absolutely fine otherwise.  I did find I was giving her too much Naturediet which made her loose, but have cut that back.  Just seems odd that it's every now and then, or is it the other things that she picks up that cause it.  Chews newspaper, cardboard, well just about anything really.  LOL

I have to ask, why do you give her a probiotic? As a general rule I'm against suppliments of any kind on the grounds that a good balanced food is just that, ballanced. Any extras you give can so easily unbalance the diet.

Regards, John

John - that's interesting.  I thought it was good to keep the gut flora right.  The pup has had a week on antibiotics because of vaginitis and also Naturediet recommend one.  I realize they make money out of it, but that wasn't why I used a probiotic in the first place.

I agree with John, no matter what you feed, assuming it meets all nutritional needs, providing the diet does not change the gut flora should settle into a healthy balance on its own.  Antibiotics, off course, do make a difference, killing the good flora as well as the bacteria you are aiming at but I don't feel you need expensive probiotics when a spoonful of live yoghurt during the course and for 2 or 3 days after completion will do the job very nicely :)

I've just seen about Holly Jean, I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles. A Flatcoat came visiting yesterday bringing me a Christmas present! They really are a lovely breed.

My reading of probiotic's are that they improve the stomach flora but my feelings are that if everything is OK then the stomach flora should be fine without help. I find it interesting that her first movement of the day is fine but after that she is loose. I imaging you give the probiotic in the first feed so I'm wondering id this is the cause? An easy test is to leave it off for a couple of days and see if that makes any difference.

Improving the flora, usually after a spell of diarrhoea and sickness is often a god idea and yogurt is often the recommendation. But I'm wondering if you can have too much of a good thing?

Regards, John

John, OK good thinking.  I will leave it off for a few days and see what happens.  She came to me on Arden Grange, but she didn't seem to like it much and did enormous, very foul smelling pooh!  I gradually changed her over to Naturediet and got in the habit of a little probiotic to help the change.  THen she had the vaginitis and the ab's, so I kept it going.  Then she ate half a tennis ball and had violent diahorrea, and after that we discovered her kneecap was out and she was given rimadyl - only gave her 2 of those and she had diahorrea all night.  I HATE RIMADYL and I will not give it to any dog again.  So you can see why I have been using the probiotic.

I have Holly back after being on the drip.  I must say she will eat virtually nothing, although managed 2 bacon rashers this morning, after I had tried, fish, chicken, scrambled egg.  I am afraid that tomorrow we may put her down.  She is depressed, and has no quality of life.  When I think she was at the beach last Saturday splashing and playing - this kidney disease has suddenly taken her down.  Still, the vet said she has done well since May when they discovered it.  Sad

It's the hardest job to ever have to do Jean but we know when we have reached the end of the road and it is the last kindness we can do for our dogs.

Remember what I said about Rimadyl. It is easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are a lot of dogs around with a quality of life which is better than it could have been any other way. I will never give it if it was not essential but if there was no other chance I would not hesitate. My complaint is that these days vets seem to see it as a general cure all! My vet tried to prescribe it for Anna when she had to have a split tooth out! I said "No thanks!"

Regards, John

John, I totally agree with what you said about Rimadyl - it helps some older dogs.  My last Flattie made nearly 13, and although Rimadyl didn't work for her, the steroid did and kept her bouncy for some considerable time, as she had arthritis.  I just don't think it should be used on a 14 week old pup and indeed the orthopaedic vet said the pup needed nothing at all, just rest.  Having said that, we have just got back from the beach with both dogs, and this pup is still walking strangely.  We just walked her 20 yards on the lead and back.  She is cow-hocked - still maybe muscular strength is what she needs. 

We took Holly for the last time and although she walked very slowly to the water#s edge, there was no life in her at all, when last Saturday she was swimming and playing.  So the decision is made.  Strangely, as soon as I said "car" and "beach", her ears pricked up and she jumped into the car, but the mind was willing and the flesh so very weak.

I know Flatcoat hips are by and large very good but for what it's worth I would keep her walking very short at the moment. The 5 minute rule is not a bad basis to work to. This would give a maximum of something between 15 and 20 minutes walking time at the moment. Whether it is her hips or her knees, building the muscles up slowly can do nothing but help. 5 minutes per month is nowhere nearly as restrictive as it sounds. My Anna spent 2 hours at an exemption show at that age but the only walking she did was from the car to the ring plus a quick look at the sideshows, Terrier racing, gymkhana, hawks and some roundabouts! The rest of the time she was asleep on my lap. It's amazing what socialising you can build into these outings! A trip to the corner of the road and a few minutes sit on the seat at the corner (We have one outside the corner shop) is great for meeting people!

Regards, John
 

John - that's about all she is getting.  She walks up the hill (apparently good for the hind legs) and about 30yards and back down again.  Today at the beach, she walked 30yards and Van carried her back.  So it's good to hear that sounds about right.

Hi Jean, am I right in thinking she`s had loose poos for a number of wks then?
Coupled with her then going on a/bs, rymadil then a bad dose of dire rear after eating tennis ball. I would continue with the probiotic for another few wks at least & also consider feeding her a light diet then change her slowly back onto her normal diet. Shes only 14wks old & had upset tum for a number of wks, at that age the intestine lining of pups tums can get disrupted easily & takes quite a while to get back to normal. It`s not just a matter of her food being balanced or not it`s a question of her gut tolerating it which it doesn`t seem to being properly right now. I`d also get have her fecal tested to make sure theres nothing else causing the upset. ;)
Sorry to hear about your older dog.
Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine - I wouldn't exactly call it dire rear.  It's just slightly loose.  Take this morning.  At 7.30 before food, did completely normal solid stuff.  Fed her at 8.30, she went again some solid, but the rest slightly sloppy.  I gave no probiotic today.  What do you reckon?

Hi Jean, well I`d be bit concerned cos it`s not right is it? How long altogether has it been going on for?
I`d have a fecal test done, put her on light diet till it got back solid for a wk or so then very slowly go back to her normal diet all the time giving yoghurt daily. Sometimes after the intestines have been disrupted for one reason or another they just need a break with light food to get back %100 being able to digest a normal diet. If she`s got no infection there the light diet should do the trick, even if there is it`ll still do no harm :)
Christine, Spain.

Christine - third motion of the day was perfectly normal.  LOL  I've also had to go back to the vet as we believe she has luxating patellas - slipping kneecaps.  It never rains but it pours. 

Oh dear, lets hope she stays solids, one less thing to worry about!
Christine, Spain.