Hi,

Does anyone have the number of the lady near Southampton who does the hip scoring clinics at her house? I know she has Newfies and lives at the end of a dirt track. Thanks.

I thought hip scoring had to be done by X ray & referral to the BVA Panel Has this changed & have I missed the change to lay people doing scoring ??

Sounds very strange - perhaps someone finding a way round not having to submit plates that look iffy?  Hope not - it sort of takes away the good of the scheme :(

Teri

I think this lady does the X-rays under sedation rather than a full GA. I gather the plates are sent off to be scored officially in the usual way.

(I could have got hold of the wrong end of the stick, though!)
:)

She is a Vet then ? If she isn't how does she get the BVA to accept the plates ?

It used to be a KC rule that a GA was used - sedation only was not acceptable (which seemed a bit harsh and less caring but hey, it's the KC we're talking about :()  Has that rule changed then?

Regards Teri

I would want to check out her qualifications for x raying first...after all a bad plate can affect the results
Archer

Goodness where did you hear that? (I am presuming your vet!) But the KC & BVA have never insisted upon such a thing.
In fact the lady in Southampton never even used to sedate the dogs many years ago, but the regulations changed and sedation then had to be administered.

Any organisation that makes rules that dogs HAVE to have a GA obviously have no concern for a dogs welfare at all!

Hannah

The BVA DO have rules on the x-raying of dogs whilst being held. They were made to protect the assistant from an overdose of harmful rays which often happened back in the days when x-ray machines first started to be used in vets.

The KC have said that they will reject any plate they find to have been taken in this manner.

Regards, John

Hi Hannah,

I'm a bit surprised at the "shock horror" tone of your reply - particularly when your statement  >But the KC & BVA have never insisted upon such a thing<  is incorrect.   A statement was released by the KC Press Office many years ago to the effect that GA scoring only was acceptable as dogs not anaethsetised at all or merely sedated presented a danger to staff both restraining and manipulating the dog and also compromised the accuracy of the scores.  I'm aware that *some* vets preferred to use sedation rather than GA but have been told  that they normally requested that clients did not make this public knowledge as plates would be invalidated.

Nowadays the BVA advocate (for the protection of personnel) "it is NECESSARY to employ GA, narcosis or deep sedation to enable only mechanical (ie not manual) restraint for the positioning of the animal" so clearly in their own rules the BVA will accept "deep sedation".   Thankfully things improve all the time but method of sedation is often the most dangerous to the animal rather than the GA itself as anaphylactic (sp) shock  can be caused at that stage too and the dog hasn't the advantage of being connected to the many monitors and life saving equipment it would be if being administered a GA.

Regards, Teri  

Have PM'd you.

I have heard excellent results about her if her name is Marylin, she is spot on with the score before you send them off which is one of the reasons so many people use her.
Sandra

Not with one of ours, she wasn't - she was out by about 15 points from the plate, which was a huge disappointment to us, as we'd also heard how accurate she is. :(

In all other aspects she was excellent though - if she's not happy that plates are of the required quality, they are re-done at no extra charge until they're happy.

I believe, but don't quote me, that she runs the clinics and has a retired(?) vet taking the x-rays.

As far as avoiding submission for bad plates goes, I would say they are aiming for the opposite - making scoring easily affordable, so as many plates as possible are submitted - just my view.

M.

No, it's all above board! The lady who does the hip scores is a vet, from the Isle of Wight I think, who comes over for the clinic every now and then. She only sedates, which is much nicer and easier for the dogs and much cheaper. All the plates are sent in. Had two of mine done there a couple of years ago and was very pleased. Thanks for the PM Val!

The X Rays are done by a vet, the lady who has the Newfies provides the accommodation and the plates are sent of and scored in the usual way by the BVA and, as far as I am aware, the people doing the X Rays do not try to "second guess" the score, just make sure the plates are as good as possible. They use sedation rather than anaesthetic and I have heard nothing but good reports. I was going to have my girl done there when we went to Bournemouth, but unfortunately they didnt have a "session" planned for whilst we were there.   

Not related to this person but I think that if a vet takes an x ray for a hip score they should be sent off whatever the hips look like. I believe it is very unproffesional when hips or elbows look poor some vets suggest that they are not sent for scoring. This results in an abnormally low representation of the breed average and also hides poor hips/ elbows in some lines.
Amos

When I had my Brett dog X rayed & the hips were bad I had already signed the BVA form(which has to be signed BEFORE the X rays are done)my vet(Jill Reed)never even though of not sending them in-she won't X ray if the owner only wants them sending in if they are good-She has always held this view ! & is one of the many reasons I recommend her

my vets are terrible for this. they told me not to send flynns off cos they were too bad.did anyway!
clare has just had amy done & when i asked her what they  looked like,she said she hadnt seen them but the vets had said "they were good enough to send off". FCOL!! what good is a breed average if its just the average of the good plates??? no good at all!

Hi Michelled,

You're quite right of course - the vets who do this may think they are doing their client a favour but they do the breed no favour.  My vets, past and present, are very above board and I prefer that - I fill in and sign the forms first and the rest is in their hands (well, apart from taking my cash:D)

Teri ;)

why do they think it will help though,dosent suddenly make them good does it?
i considered changing vets because of it at the time-i was so disgusted. but apart from that they are head & shoulders above the others in my area,so have stuck with them.

My "GP"vets who treats my dogs for ailments do ask after the X rays are done if they look cr*p or not do you still want them sending off(not the vet who usually sees my dogs but others at the group)& they still use a table to X ray, that's why I use Jill who uses a sling & yes she does use a GA by the reversible type which means you can take your dog, get it X rayed & off home without having to leave the dogs at the vets(she makes a good cup of coffee too)

I agree, I come from zimbabwe and I breed gsds when my bitch went in to have her xrays done I wasnt given the choice of whether or not they would be sent in, the zimbabwe hip displasia scheme vets are the only ones that are allowed to take the xrays of the dogs no other vets and they score them there we follow the german way of scoring which is A+(excellent), A0(average,normal), A-(border line) C (not allowed to be bred from) if your dog fails it is put into the zimbabwe kennel club newsletter which is distributed to all breeders in the country so you know which dog you can use and which you cant, when my bitch had her thirteen pups when they were all a year old they were all sent in to have their hips done even though the majority of them had gone to pet homes basically it was for my own records I wanted to see that my A+ bitch was producing sound prodgeny thankfully they were all positive not one failed but if breeders of dogs that were renowned for hip and elbow displasia stood up and protected their breeding in this way even if the xrayings of the pups is included in the cost of the pup when you sell it be honest and proud to know that you are trying to acheive a well and sound dog in mind and body after all what is the point of breeding if you are not producing something which is better than both its parents!

Maybe this is something that the dog fraternity could take up with the BVA or which ever vetinary body is responsible for this kind of thing.
Amos