Hello Everybody.
Iv'e only posted once as a visitor and it was about a friend ( genuine - not really me ) who had bought a border terrier puppy that growled every time you picked it up.Any way after the advice , which I passed on - thankyou, the owners ignored this.
Tonight I have come home with said puppy.Now about 5 mnths old.
The reason why... we went around for Sunday lunch and when I arrived my husband had already been there for 1/2 hr, he said I think we should take this dog and try and retrain it.Now the last thing my husband wants is another dog ( we already have 3) so the situation must have been very bad for him to have said that as he isn't a soft , sympathetic type.The dog , well bich actually had when evr it had been allowed in the house , had been weeing and pooing immediately and was getting absolutely leathered for it.
They have another german shepard who lives outside as a type of guard dog and the pup has been kicked out with it day and night.So when ever it does come in it just wee's straight away.
Any how I've now got it.I really didn't want to take it on as ,as I've said I tried to tell them before but I'm genuinely worried for the dogs safety.
So I've brought it back and it went straight to my old dogs bed and wee'd on it.
I just said no and picked it up and took it outside and said " wee wee" ect.
So my question is apart from normal house trainig that you would do with any puppy what else should I be doing.It obvoiusly thinks it's okay to go in the house and she should put her smell there but also she has been badly beaten.
Where do I go from here. I know you all are experienced dog owners so I thought I'd ask your opinion.
Hope you can help me and the pup...Suzie.
Thanks Rach.

I would get them to sign the dog to you so that you can rehome her? so they dont want her back when she is sorted.
Patience and understanding should sort out the situation.I hope you can help her I'm sure you can and that lots of advice will be forthcoming here.Good Luck

Have you any idea who they bought the puppy from, if you have then I would contact the breeder immediately.

I know as a breeder of BT's that if this was happening to one of my pups I would want to know and get involved with either helping to retrain or rehoming. If you could just find out the name of the people and the area, maybe I would know them. If not I can certainly put you in touch with Border Terrier Welfare.

If you would like to e-mail me privately please do so and I will give you all the help that I possibly can. My e-mail address is jaynealpe@pipruda.fsnet.co.uk

If you want to attempt the retraining yourselves, then my advice would be to go right back to basics, treat her as if she was an 8 week old puppy, give her a fresh start with your training methods. The most important thing at the moment is to get her confidence.

With housetraining I always reward them when they go in the right place (it maybe that going back to paper training to start with might help) either with a titbit or with my voice, and ignoring them when they go in the wrong place, just pick her up if you catch her and take her straight outside.

I am so pleased that your husband decided to take this action he's a hero. No BT puppy or indeed any puppy of this age deserved the kind of treatment she was getting, she sounds to me as if she was weeing and pooing with fright, which would also explain the growling previously it was probably her defence mechanism. The poor little soul has no trust whatsoever in the human race and it is going to be quite a battle to give her that confidence back.

Please please get in touch with me

Jayne

Thanks for your replies.
Just to let you know how we are getting on.
She has settled in well.We are only getting the occasional accident in the house now as I am taking her out every 1/2 hr or so.she knows what "wee wee" means.
At night she still messes but fewer last night than the night before.
A question I have about toilet training is....
she thinks it is okay to go to the loo in the house so when she has an accident there I put her straight out into garden.But I dont tell her off, I ignore what she has done and just clean it up, but how does she know it's wrong then.
won't she just think it's okay to go in house and outside where evr she happens to be?
And with her living outside she went as often as she needed and didn't have to train her bladder to store up more urine and wait - so how do I get her to go longer each time without her weeing in house?
Confused!
I have had a couple of offers of a home for her which are with excellent homes but the guy isn't sure he wants to let her go as it was his 8yr daughters birthday pressy. AAArrggh.
I know if I get her right and she goes back there it will start all over again.
Lady Dazzle - I have suggested to them several times to phone her breeder as I'm sure he would have her back but they seem very reluctant to do this- I cant understand why...maybe Male pride or something.
I actually went to see puppy with them before they got it and advised against getting her, saying if they did they would have to do alot of specific training with her , unfortunately cause the guys got a German Shepard he thinks he knows how to train dogs.In my opinion he was just lucky with her as she is a good dog .now he's got problems with the puppy and doesn't know what to do, just blames the dog.I really wanted to stay out of the way seeing as they didn't take my advice first of all but how can you sit back and watch a pup get hurt? EEEk not sure what to do for best now. Any way if I need more specific help LD I'll e-mail you.Thanks for the offer of help.
I'll keep you up to date with how we get on.

Glad to hear things are going well :-) Re the toilet training - using the methods you are you're not teaching 'right' and 'wrong' which dogs don't understand anyway, what you are teaching is initially 'doing things this way gets you the buzz of making me happy and perhaps a treat for you' till eventually doing things this way becomes a habit (which takes longer in some dogs than others). Dogs you see are like gamblers - they'll keep doing the things that pay out.........

HTH

Fran

Hi

I was so sorry to hear of the plight of this little pup, but so pleased to hear that your hubby and you are helping out:)

I trained my BSd pup to not go in the house etc. just by taking her outside, (best to always go with her) and didn't ever tell her "no" - pup's do learn this way so don't worry. This little girl will also probably be desperate to please as well so she will try to do what's best. Yes i agree with Lady Dazzle, it does sound as if the weeing and pooing are partly at least from fright, especially if it happened almost straight awaywhen in the house. So sad :(

Anyway lots of luck - please try to avoid giving this little one back - even if you have to tell a white lie it will be so worth it.

Do keep in touch.

LINdsay

Hi.Thanks for the encouragement.
I think I had better make the situation clear.I don't think that if the puppy went back ,as long as it was house trained that it would be continued to be smacked only that I doubt whether if it went back into exactly the same situation that it would stay house trained.the owner isn't a bad guy it's just that he thought that that is how you deal with a pup who has problems.We all know that's wrong but I do think some just genuinely don't know a better way!!His other dog is very well treated and has a lovely natural life,it was just unfortunate that the pup couldn't fit into this life also.At least they are willing to let me try and help the pup.
Any how she's spent the afternoon at the stables with me and is doing well - if a bit smelly :)
I've cooked some liver for her and I'm using it as rewards for going outside so hopefully this will encourage her to wait until she's out then she'll get a treat.
Thanks again.

When we caught the puppy (any puppy) inside we would pick it up mid act and say firmly NO. Then we would say Potty Outside - put her outside and encourage her to finish pottying. And praise her when she did.

We didn't scold, but we did correct - but only if caught in the act.

Wendy

Hi Rach

It seems that you are hopefully getting on top of the pups problems.

As regard the ignoring accidents and praising when she goes where you want her to (i.e. in the garden). You will find that with lots of effort she will come to associate going in the garden and being well praised for it (good girl what a good girl in a nice singsongy voice) and perhaps a titbit (BT's will sell their souls for a titbit), to be the place to go. The ignoring of her peeing in the house will not encourage her to do it more I promise. I know the temptation is to scold her with a strong No but as she is probably a very bewildered puppy right now, this would only make her remember the beatings she got for doing it in the house before and make her likely to pee through fright just at the strong tone of your voice. Something I have never tried but have heard worked for some is to place her water bowl and or foodbowl on the area that she has soiled, too discourage her from using that area again (dogs will very rarely soil there feeding or watering areas is the idea behind this).

I use this method with my tiny babies from 5-6 weeks onwards and by the time they go to their new homes they are pretty much either paper or outside trained by 8-10 weeks. When they first go in the garden I use the same sing songy voice to encourage them to pee as I did when they managed find the paper in their pens.

My temptation is to agree with Lindsay I think that when you have managed to house train her completely, and bearing in mind this may take a number of weeks with bad habits to correct, and return her to her previous home she may revert to her previous behaviour through memory of bad experiences. So if possible I would try to persuade the owners to let you re-home her.

Regards

Daz

Hi Everyone.
Very depressed tonight.Iv'e just spocken to her owners and they want to come and pick her up tonight.This is despite the fact that I have found her an excellent home.It almost seems like " well if someone wants her that much maybe she's a good dog and we'll hold onto her"
I'm sick! I have made a small inroad into her toilet training but nowhere near the stage that she's house trained and I know as soon as she goes back now she'll start peeing ect every where again.The owners haven't so much as said 'can you tell us how to continue her training , or anything" She has really come out of her self since being here.The guy came around a few nights ago and although she wagged her tail she tucked her tail a nd back end in so far it looked as though she was sitting as she walked and then snaked along the floor in a totally submissive way.
In away I wish I had never got involved.
Too top the whole situation off my 13yr old German Shepard is at the vets and has been diagnosed with Kidney failure so we're also thinking of what's best for him too.
God it never rains but it poors.
All I can do I suppose is hope that they take her home and realise quickly that they have made a mistake .
Thanks for all the advice.
Will post again if I have any news.
Rac.

Cant you offer money for her Ive often found it works,If you need help I could try and help via my rescue

Oh no thats really sad that she has to go back...you must feel awful.
Sorry to hear about your dog as well.
Try and keep your chin up(if you can )

Kay

Across the pond, posession is 9/10 of the law. Wish you were here, then they couldn't do much!
So sorry to hear about your dog, got some prayers going up for ya.

HI, what a sad story. you deserve a medal for your efforts. Would there be any point in getting the RSPCA involved? I would be tempted to phone them, if possible before the dog goes back and tell them the situation and maybe they could follow up with help and advice once the pup has been taken back by its owners? maybe the thought of the RSPCA being involved may make them think twice about taking it back at all? I'm not a great fan of the RSPCA in general, but some of the individual inspectors are wonderful and may be keen to help. I am no legal-eagle and no nothing of RSPCA policy, but its just a thought. No puppy should ever be beaten, and if the poor baby is cowering when she sees her owner, it must be heartbreaking for you, but in my book shows the puppy has been cruelly treated, even if the owner did it through ignorance- its still cruelty. Best of luck.

i am so upset to hear the owner has by now probably got the pup back....Rac it must be awful fo r you too.....

Please try to keep in touch, you are this pup's lifeline. Can you not say you liked her so much you will buy her?

The [pup is probably already going through torment. Shame she can't be let out and "find" her way to someone kind and knowledgeable. If you know who the breeder is, could you contact him/her anonymously? Maybe they could do something.....

So sorry to hear too about your own problems....bless you.

LIndsay

Thanks once again for every ones kind words.
God what an evening last night.At 6.30 pm the Lady came around with the kids to pick up the pup.Have to say the pup seemed glad to see the kids.At 6.45 while they were still here I got a call from my vet saying my old boy was worse and on his advice we shouldn't leave him overnight to suffer .so I had to leave the lady in the house with the dogs and my kids and rush of to the vet with my husband and say are final farewells to our beloved Sammy Dog.Once we got home the male owner was there ( they are freinds- we didn't leave our kids with strangers ! )Any how after a glass of wine I plucked up the courage to give it too them.
I explained very calmly exactly where they were going wrong , how to continue on the progress I had been making.
They actually seemed to listen and where nodding their heads.
And I told him that if I saw him hitting her again I wouldn't be responsble for my actions- in the freindliest way I could.
I do think they new I was being serious though.
Any how I have just phoned them to see how she's getting on and although she has poo'd in house last night, she has gone in garden today and they said they've given her loads of praise.In the background I could hear the guy calling her for her food in a pleasant voice.
So fingers crossed.I have said that if they still can't cope in a week I'll take her back and put her in the new home.
I do however feel awfull for the lady who was going to have her.She's just lost her Jack Russell that died from cancer at age 8 and as she doesn't work would have loved to put her energys into helping this dog.She's very disappointed at not being able to have her.
My house seems so empty know.Just to think on wednesday I had 5 dogs in the house ( i was also puppy sitting my freinds dog who had to go out for the day ) and now I've only 2.No messes to clear up, no sick to clear ( my old dog was being sick every half hour ) no puppies to take out and encourage to go to the loo.I'm really at a loss as too what to do.Even my young German Sheperd is fed up of me cuddling him.
Oh well no doubt something will come along.
Was thinking of getting my life long ambition..A Great Dane.
Just got to persuade the hubby......!
Thanks everyone .I'll let you know who the pup gets on and don't worry I will be keeping a close eye on it.
Rac.

I don't know what to say regarding your loss, other than how sorry I am. I hope the puppy gets on OK next door, and good for you for giving it to them straight, may be it's what they needed. Your friend who was going to re-home does she have access to the internet she could try the dogpages site, there seem to be lots of little dogs who would benefit from her time and commitment.

Rac

My hat is off to you :)

I am sure the glass of wine helped :D but that was so courageous to tell them straight what you thought and where they were going wrong.

So sorry to hear about Sammy Boy, it's never easy is it.....?

Best wishes

LIndsay