Hello All. I used to visit this board alot when it still had a chat room. Twilly are you still about? Apologies to the others, can't remember any other names .....anyway, i need some friendly advice really......here goes......

I have a 4 and a half year old male rottie.  He is a nightmare with the vet, have tried eveything.  He now need a full anesthetic just to be examined. So, this might give you an insight as to why there are complications to the most straightfroward of issues.

Mid october, I noticed what seemed to look like an ulcer, on top of my dogs tooth.  I left this a few days to see what happend. It was getting bigger.  I called vets, and spoke to my nurser friend. I explained I didn't think bringing him in would be an option, as it would be virtually impossible to exaine in his mouth. I asked them for a course of antibiotics, and at the time, it still appeared to be an ulcer.

He did a weeks worth of 2 types of antibiotics.  Noithing changed, if fact, it got bigger.  I then booked in for a consult and if needed minor op to remove the growth, which I can now only explain to you as looking like a piece of large popcorn, right on his gum.

4 shots of anesthectic later, he was still blinking when vet was tapping inner part of his eye.  Anyway, they removed the growth.  I stayed at the vets that day from 9am, and left at 2.45pm.  He was fitting whilst coming round from the anesthetic.  he didn't even recognise me, he was throwing himself about the cage.  The nurse told me it was a reaction from all the drugs he'd had.  Anyway, i waited a little longer, once he was 'round' i took him home.

The results came back as cancer.  Although they told me it was a slow growing tumour.  I had an idea it might be cancer from the start, the lump just didn't look right.  I took it well for some reason. 

Not even 4 days later, i notice what seemed like another small ulcer apperaing.  I called the vet, he himself was surprised.  He said let's give it another week and see. I have and it';s the same as before, if not bigger, growing and growing by the day. My dog is an absuolte angel.  he is at home all day, (outside) with my JRT.  He never gives me any grief whatsoever.  Lately, he has been whimpering at night, licking his lips a lot and sleeping practically from when i bring him in for the night at 5pm straight through to the following morning, but snoring.  Most mornings, where he would usually be happy to get up, he doesn't want to move.  If this part of the cancer or am I looking into everything too much?
I had a lenghty conversation with vet. He explains I have 2 options.  Either have him have surgery, to remove part of the jaw where this lump keeps appearing or, continue to have it removed every so often.  As far as the surgery option goes, both my mother and I have come to the conclusion we dont think it's fair to make him undergo this.  For a start, any aftercare needed by vets or nurses would require him going under anesthetic.  I would have to take time off work, i would say at least a week.  After which, he will be alone all day, should he be in pain or need anything, i don't get him until late.  Also, the pain must be immense.  he would be unhappy for a long time.  So we have sort of ruled this out at the moment.

I am at a loose end, and I really would like some friendly advice from other animal lovers that perhaps can understand why I have been crying practically every day since the lump came back.  the icing on the cake was last night, it is as big as when he had it taken off the first time. 

I know, that eventually, cancer will get the better of him. I am told when it starts in the mouth, it goes to the throat. 

I am starting to think the sensible option for my dogs sake is to have him put to sleep.  Every time I think of this I cry.  I've had Max since he was a baby.  he has seen me through many problems.

Please, if any of you can suggest anything at all, it would be very, greatly appreciated.

Thank you

You will possibly not remember me, I never ever went into the chat room!

I'm sorry Guest but I have to say that if it is growing that fast on the outside then the chances are you are only looking at the tip of the iceberg. I would ask my vet to xray to see whats there. It could be that after seeing the results the action to take will be obvious. I would also ask my vet that in the event there was nothing to be done to please take the relavent action whilst the dog was still under the anesthetic. I know how hard it is, having had to take these actions at times but please remember, to spare your dog suffering is the last kindness you can do for him.

Regards, John

Hi Guest

I am sorry to hear about Max and know how hard it must be for you.  I feel that you know what you should do but cannot bring yourself to do it.  I know from experience earlier this year that even slow growing/low malignent cancers can come back very agressively as I had a bitch who had a lump removed just before Christmas last year, the results were promising even though it was mammary cancer and the report indicated she should have a full life span - this lasted three weeks and she could hardly move as she could not breath well as it had spread to her lungs (these were x-rayed and clear before the operation).

Never forget that the final way you can show you love Max is to let him die without pain and that it is better to do it a few days too early than an hour too late.  He has cancer and they do not recover from this so there is no chance that he will get better.

I always feel that making the decision is the hardest thing, carrying it out is sometimes easier as we know that is for our dog's benefit

I am sorry to hear about Max, and I can understand that you are really upset,but as John and Kerioak said the last act of kindnes you can show to your beloved pet is to let them die as pain free as possible. Take care and give Max a hug from me.

Michelle

We may have spoken before.  I used the old board and went in the chat room quite often .  I was known as Poacher then.

I am so sorry about your boy.

I lost my old bitch in January to mouth cancer, admittedly she was an old lady at the time.  So I know what you are going through.

We decided when we first found it, not to do anything about it and to let nature take its course.

She started with it in September and occasionally had bleeding episodes, which stoped veru quickly.  She unfortunately banged her mouth quite badly on Christmas Day which caused a bad bleeding session but she was not in any pain, so we let her carry on.

A week later it started to bleed again and we made the decision to let her go to the Bridge.

I have no regrets in doing it this way, she lived what was left of her life to the full without pain or surgery and went before she started to suffer. I certainly wouldn't have had her pts earlier as it gave us the chance to make those last months really good for her.

I think only you can make the decision, but as someone else said, its is the last act of love you can do for your boy.

xxx

Jayne

One of my first dogs, a lab x whippet, had a cancerous lump on the nose and we did have her operated on; she did well for a short while but it came back, as expected, and we knew it was no use to keep operating so we had her put to sleep. Luckily she seemed to have no real ill effects from the lump except a little bleeding, but she was an elderly girl by then so we let her go with dignity.

It's so hard but i can only agree with what others have said. My thoughts are with you.

Lindsay
X

I'm so sorry to hear your boy is not well - I have a similar dilemma with one of my rotties at the moment.

Do please email me (alnicholl@aol.com) if you want a chat and I'll send you my telephone number.  These things are always heartbreaking.