Having decided to switch to either burns or james wellbeloved I am now thoroughly confused as to which to go for.  I visited the pet shop today to ask the advice of the owner but all he could tell me is that they are both good foods but James Wellbeloved uses vegetables.
Has anybody tried both of these and what do you think is better?  Does anybody have a labrador who is on either of these two foods and if so how did they take to it and what did they prefer.  Also are these foods alright for bone growth etc
Van

http://www.bpn4u.com/products.html
http://www.wellbeloved.co.uk/

You can compare the foods on both the above sites.  As you will see Burns contains veggies.  I do not feed it myself, as I prefer to feed raw, but my choice would be Burns over the JWB; but that is JMHO :D

Burns will send you free samples..........

Hi Tohme
Thanks for the links I will check them out now. Why would you chose Burns over James Wellbeloved though?
Van

Sorry started to answer the wrong question!

I would choose Burns over JWB a) because it is on the BUAV list, b) because I prefer the ingredients (I would not use the variety with SBP) and c) because I have seen the results! :D

Hi Tohme
I just can't decide what to do.  Having visited the pet shop yesterday he told me Eukanuba was a very good food and that I should stick with it for my lab.  On looking at the website and speaking to them my fears were slightly allayed I don't want to change her from a good food that is specially formulated to another if it is not necessary.  What would you do stick with Eukanuba or switch to Burns and also what results did you see what happens on the Burns food.
Sorry for all the questions
Van
ps what is SBP?

First of all does the pet shop owner have a degree in dietetics or nutrition?
Does he sell Burns?
Does he sell Eukanuba?
On what does he base his opinion?
What precisely is Eukanuba specially formulated for?  Hopefully dogs; just as other dog foods are! :D
It is your dog and if you and your dog are happy on the food then continue.

I would not touch Eukanuba with a barge pole myself, but that is just my personal opinion.

SBP stands for Sugar Beet Pulp, a "filler" designed to bulk up the stools.

I comparison shop, I believe the content of the Burns is superior to Eukanuba which contains ingredients  I prefer to avoid such as  unecessariy additives, like dried beet pulp, linseed can be problematic for some dogs, yeast can trigger yeast overgrowths; I would never feed maize or sorghum and this has added salt.

At the end of the day it is your dog and your choice; as many would say if it aint broke don't fix it. :)

I am only giving you my opinion; everyone has a different one! :D

Tohme
Thank you for your wise words.  I have just called Burns and asked them to send me some samples over to try in her food. 
The pet shop owner does sell Burns, JWB etc but he was wearing a Eukanuba sweatshirt which might say something about his bias in that direction!!!!!
I wonder also whether it could explain why she drinks so much and wees constantly (I have just posted in the health section about this) something I am very very concerned about perhaps it could be because of the added salt in the food.
Thank you for your help I am very grateful and looking forward to trying the Burns (not me but Desi!)
Van

HI Van,
I agree with Tohme go for Burns. I'm in Brittany at the moment and am about to switch Murph over to Burns and Pero Organic. Have used Burns before and found it to be a good food. I have to get my supplies from England though...not a lot of variety our here. At the moment Murph's raw fed but it's geting too expensive and no room in my little freezer.
eukanuba I've never used  and don't think I would when there are so many 'better' (IMHO)! foods around.

Regards

I would stay far away from eukanuba,the only thing premium about it is it's price :rolleyes:

Why dont you alternate between burns and james well beloved? Dogs appreciate variety as much as we do :D There are no rules stating that you have to feed the same old kibble day in day out for the rest of the dogs life.

I alternate between 2 different kibbles,when one bag runs out i swap to the other,if we had more choice of holistic dry foods here(australia) then i would throw them into the mix as well ,i also supplement with raw and homemade.

Hey Ozzie
whereabouts in Oz are you from my husband is from Sydney so G'day to you in the land Down Under!!!!

I don't mind alternating between foods but can't they get soft and runny stools/upset tums if you change between them?
Van

Hi Goat :)

I'm from adelaide,sydney is too hussle and bussle for me,an exciting city to be in tho.

I have fed my dogs a huge variety from the minute i got them,they dont have the same foods 2 times in a row and very rarely 2 days in a row,hence they have cast iron stomachs.They have never had diareah or dicky tummies from anything i've fed because they are used to a wide variety of foods.
I just cant bring myself to feed the same food day in day out,how boring,despite what some people say dogs DO appreciate and need variety.

How lovely I have never visited Adelaide but have heard it is a very pretty town.
Sydney is lovely also I love the harbour aspect I think that is what makes the place and of course all the wonderful beaches!

With regard to the food issue.  I am really swaying to Burns but what I am worried about is whether the food is specially formulated to take into account the growth of puppies.  I rang the helpline who were very nice and told me that as Desi is 6 months I should put her on canine extra for a few months and then move her onto the regular food.  I have just read also about the lack of oil in the food on another post and wonder whether this is a problem or not.

Van

You also need to consider the company thats making the food. Some like Eucanuba and Iams experiment on animals, inducing health problems and then using teh food to see if it works - cruel or what?!
Burns is approved by the BUAV, they're an ethical company and its a really good product - my pup is growing beautifully with a really glossy coat.
They've got a good nutritional helpline on 0800 083 66 96 and they are very helpful with any problems or advice needed. It's easy to get hold of these days, and if your pet shop doesn't stock it you can do what I do and get it direct and carriage free.

Really pleased I read this thread.  My new pup is on Arden Grange and passing humungous stools.  The product is holistic and on the BUAV list, but does use Sugar Beet pulp and linseed.  I am going to change her on to Naturediet which the other dog is on.  I also like Burns, but the older dog went off it as she has kidney disease and they get very fussy.

Goat - my 2 are both Flatcoated Retrievers.  I am sure Naturediet and also Burns is great for coat and bones.

Just to put a further spanner in the works here.  I have 4 dogs, 2 Bichon Frises, Springer Spaniel and a Stollie (Staffie x Collie) and they are all fed on JWB.  3 of them have sensitive skin and JWB is good for sensitive skin.  They are all lovely and healthy on it.  I love it.  I have 3 cats that are fed on JWB cat food too :)

Also I thought we weren't to chop and change our dogs diet and it can cause stomach upsets and we had to swaps food gradually over quite a few days.

I've tried both food on my GSD and Boxer, no experience on lab, however I find burns to be better. I even want to eat it myself, it smells of fresh fish and I dont really like fish that much!! I find Burns to be an excellent price £33 for a 15kg bag!!! Also saying that Euk and Iams experiments on dogs says something for James Welbeloved as so do they! also apparently they are owned by pedigree, which can't be good. I also believe Burns is a top notch food because it is listed on Whole Dog Journals Top Food list.

Hi,

Jwb is not owned by pedigree.

I feed this to my show Goldens with excellent results and yet to find a food half as good on my dogs just my opioin of course :-)

Briony :-)

Briony,
        I think Pedigree bought JWB a few months ago
                                                                    Anne

just so there no dout about it extract from  European commission on take over/ mergers BRUSSELS - Feb 15/02 - STAT -- The European Commission gave conditional regulatory approval to sale of the French petfood company Royal Canin SA. to Masterfoods Holding, a French subsidiary of Mars Inc. of the United States.

Mars has undertaken to divest for the whole of Europe its businesses connected to five of the merged group's petfood brands, i.e. Advance, Premium, Royal Chien, Playdog and Brekkies, together with two major manufacturing plants in La Chappelle and Moulin, respectively in the centre (Loir-et-Cher) and south-east of France, as well as all other assets relating to the divested business. The merger cannot be implemented before the conditions have been fulfilled.

Mars is a privately-owned manufacturer of snack foods, ice cream, pet foods and various other products, with headquarters in Virginia (US). Masterfoods Holding is a wholly-owned French subsidiary created in 2000. Mars's pet foods brands include Pedigree, Advance, Cesar, Whiskas and Sheba, which are sold worldwide, and national/regional brands such as Canigou and Brekkies.

Royal Canin is a leading supplier of dry prepared pet food products headquartered in France and listed on the Paris stock exchange. Royal Canin has developed its branded business primarily through sales in specialist outlets throughout the European Union.

Hi :)

To help you decide between the two i hope the following will be of use:

I own an online pet store and get trade magazines etc regually - one of the features compared different brands of food there are several 'check boxs' (wet, dry, lifestages, breed, organic, hypoallergenic, working dog, dental and sensitive digestion)

The two brands you are interested scored a 'tick' in the following areas.

Burns: Dry, Organic, Hypoallergenic, Working Dog and Sensitive Digestion

JWB: Dry, Lifestage, Hypoallergenic, Sensitive Digestion.

It depends on what you need, one big thing the burns has over JWB here is that Burns is organic but it depends on your own personal views as to how important that is.

Looking down the list..have you considered Berties or Wafcol? They have similar 'ticks' to the others.

Berties: Dry, Lifestages, Organic, Hypoallergenic, Working Dog, Sensitive Digestion.

Wafcol: Dry, Lifestages, Breed, Hypoallergenic, Working Dog, Dental, Sensitive Digestion

Ultimatley you need to look at the contents on the bag, what % is filler etc how much real protein are they getting. Get bags of each you are interested and compare them in-shop. The info above gives you a good over view so you know what each offers :)

Also for whoever mentioned earlier, according to this published in May 2004 JWB is owned by Crown Pet Foods, but of course that could have changed by now.

Hope that helps a little

Roxanne

And for the record, i feed my two mini schnauzers and four cats on James Wellbeloved, ive tried many brands including burns, wafcol and berties but my old man (older dog) seems to like the smell or taste of JWB more than the others and as for the cats, i have two with very sensitive stomachs and it took months to find a food that worked with them rather than against them.

Just to add according to the new bag of JWB bought from the wholesaler on sat and also their official website JWB is owned by Crown Pet Foods - Not Pedigree as speculated :)

Hi,

Dealing in the animal feed business ourselves Jwb have merged with Royal Cannin :-)

However will now check when dealing with our suppliers for our customers if anything has changed :-)

Briony :-)

Ahha well you probably know better than i do - we sell accessories not food :)

i sent an e-mail to Jwb a bit back about antioxidants in jwb the reply was signed from crown pet foods but sent via royal cannin web site  IN FRANCE !!!!!!!!!!! (Good to know that a great british name is now in the hands of our french friends) and royal cannin is owned by the mars group that also owns wait for it PEDIGREE ----- Original Message -----
From: Administrator_Notes%ROYALCANIN@royal-canin.fr
To: jo english
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Wellbeloved Contact form

Dear Jo

We have full control over what happens to our raw material once they are delivered to the mill and we have full control over their processing and production of our feeds within the mill. We can therefore say with complete confidence that no synthetic colours and antioxidants are added to our feeds during storage and production of the feeds. As far as colours are concerned, whilst some of our raw material do contain natural pigment (e.g. chlorophylls in alfalfa), these raw materials are added for nutritional value only and we can say that no material are added for there pigment activity.

Our suppliers of the meat products will have synthetic antioxidants in stock because they will have other customers who are happy to take mat treated in this way. However they are under strict instructions only to use natural antioxidants on the meat meal destined for James Wellbeloved. They are aware of our requirements months in advance. We have been dealing with our suppliers for many years and have great deal of trust in them. We do regularly test a limited numbers of deliveries for the presence of synthetics - around 1 in 20. In addition our finished products are tested for the presence of synthetic antioxidants. Based on the results of these tests, within the last few years there have no detectable levels within the raw materials.

If we can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Regards
Hayley Jones
Customer Services
Nutritional Advisor

01935 601945
HJones@crownpetfoods.co.uk

it maybe worth giving both Burns & James Wellbeloved a call and find out exactly what they put into the food.  Burns were very open when I rang, they said that the main ingredient it Brown Rice at 50%, (easy to digest) Chicken 20% (the guy said that from the chicken they take out what is used for human consumption and then the left overs is put into the dog meal.  Which means the carcuss, bones etc go in... I don't think this is the feathers tho but you may need to check this out.  The guy said that the dogs get the calcium from the bones... after reading an articule from www.thedogscene.co.uk it said that bones contain minerals, fatty acid, A, D & E and carcusses and wings are excellent) White rice 10%,  Oats 5%, (a good source of iron) peas 5%, fish 1%........  (thats 91%.. dont know what makes up the other 9%)  The protein level for Burns is lower than James Wellbeloved for puppies. 
When I spoke to James Wellbeloved they lady said that they used the 'best cuts of chicken' not the bones.  I'm waiting for some info in the post about %, so will include it on here once recieved. 
Not sure what all this means.  Must say it is difficult knowing whats best.  

oh and just to add... burns say its fine to add a few veg to the meal.

I've just read an article which says that the cellulose skin on veg prevents dogs from digesting it, so make sure you it suitably crush any veg you give with either a juicer or blender (if run long enough).  If you give a dog a carrot you will recognise it when it comes out the other end if it hasnt been crushed.  Dogs in the wild obtain vegetable matter from the stomach contents of its pray, all suitably crushed!  Not sure if this is any use, but I found it intesting, especially as I have been giving my puppy the odd chunk of carrot!!! :)

Hi Chud

there will usually be about 8 to 10% moisture in dry foods, so that will probably be the missing % you didn't get from Burns.
Cheers

Thanks for letting me know Robert :)