Hi, everyone,
second post of the day, i've got the bug! I am wondering if anyone can tell me how old a Border Terrier bitch must be to have her puppies registerecd with the KC as I know the age varies a lot for different breeds, some are 2yrs, others 8mnths etc, as we collected Elsa our BT pup two weeks before xmas, at the age of 10weeks and the breeders told us that they had applied for reg three weeks before this. I will have to briefly explain how we got her but I'll try not to waffle:rolleyes: We spoke to the breeder on the thursday after seeing an ad on the local freeads website, so I phoned to frfind out about the pup, as I'm a little sceptical about this method of purchase, but we had hunted high and low and always seemed to find breeders a day late through breed clubs so all pups had gone. anyway, the family were happy for us to come and meet the pup that night. Both parents were at the house and she was the last of four pups. They went and got her sister from their relative too so we could see more of the litter. They had wanted to keep her, but decided that three dogs was too much for them. They told us that the mother was 1yr old, though we have no way of checking, and we looked at the pedigrees of both parents, which were good, (the father came from our original choice of breeder) as we were there the man seemed to be getting upset, and said that if we wanteds her we should take her there and then, and when papers came through, they would contact us so we could pay! they took our phone number, and after an hour or so with them, we were bundled off with our beutiful girl.
The man phoned us the next evening to see how she had settled in, and we haven't heard from them since! that was two months ago!! strange or what? could this be because the bitch wasn't old enough so the KC won't register her, or does this not sound odd to anyone else?
please reply with any thoughts or ideas on situation.
Emily

Sorry just to ask have you paid for the bitch?
IM confused if its the papers or the bitch that you have not paid for yet

Sounds very odd, was the bitch shown to you as the dam, in milk, how old were the puppies said to be when you saw them, did all the puppies you saw seem to be of the same age,I'm concerened that the pups may not have been theirs to sell. I think if it were me and I wanted the pups papers I would get into the car and drive there and try to sort out what was happening. If you have no papers and have not paid for your pup then it is not yours. Hope you get is sorted sooner rather than later. Jackie H

Hi Emily

I have to say this could be OK but it sounds a bit iffy to me. Although it could be genuine - they also sound like the tried and proven sales techniques of puppy traders. OK, so they can show you pedigrees but you don't know if they belong to the dogs you saw or the parents of the pup you now have. Did you see anything that indicated that these people were proper breeders. Fetching another pup from next door, is also a worry to me. How do you know it's from the same litter, it is often all part of the scam. I could be very wrong and doing nice people a diservice here, but the signs are all there I'm afraid. No reputable breeder would allow a stranger into their home and to walk away with a puppy just like that. Puppy dealers however, just want the money and to be rid of the animal.

BT's are very much in demand so I doubt any reputable breeder would ever need to advertise in a local freebie. My main concern for you here would not be the KC side of things but being able to prove ownership.

Have you paid anything to these people at all? If so it did you get a receipt, did you get things like a diet sheet, worming and vaccination papers, a supply of food etc?

As for finding out the age at which a bitch can have puppies, you can find it all on "Form 1" which is downloadable from the Kennel Club website. It says a bitch must be over 12 months of age but does not differentiate between breeds. They put that down to the breeders being knowledgable about their own dogs!!

Follow this link KC Form 1

I think you may have literally been sold a pup - just enjoy her and learn from this experience. If you want the right dog from the right breeder, you have to wait and for some that wait can be years - but it is worth it for the piece of mind etc.

goof luck - hth

Pam n the boys

Actually the KC regulation states that a bitch cannot be under the age of 12 months when MATED, not when the pups are born, so you would expect the bitch to be at least 14 1/4 months when the pups were born. It does not vary depending on the breed. The different breed clubs codes of ethics may well state a different age and this may vary depending on the breed. Most would put a minimum age of 18 months or more.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Hi, everyone
I'm even more worried now! We haven't paid a single penny for her as yet, and while we are delighted with our girl, we would not pay the agreed price if she turns out not to be a pure bred dog, as we would have gone to a rehoming centre if we hadn't wanted a BT so much. The family were lovely, a couple in their early thirties with two children, and we had no reason to suspect anything odd while we were there, asking to see where the pups slept, and the dam was not producing milk, but her teats were pronounced. The pup they showed us aswell, was now owned by the lady's mother which was why they brought her round, and it was obvious that the dogs knew each other when all together. The main worrying factor is if they turn up on our doorstep and demand their pup back after two months of love and hard work from me, Iwould be devastated, I think we may have to go and see them.
Emily .

I feel i know whats happened here.
Novice breeders breed bitch and then find out (a) there bitch was to young to kc pups or (b) dam or sire not registered.
I think they found this out after you took pup and now know you will be attached to pup so are not wanting to contact you.
It happens a lot

I suspect that rather than having been the victim of puppy farmers or dealers you may well have come across a family who really have no knowledge of what they are doing. The kind of person who has a dog (or two) they like so decide they would like a puppy from it because mother wanted one and they wanted to keep one, and have done no research at all into correct age of breeding, or pedigrees etc. Alternatively if they own both mum and dad possibly the mating was an accident, they might even not have known about it until just before the pups were born. It sounds as if they may have done the best they could without any knowledge.

I'd go and see them and see what you can find out. I'd love to know.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Hi Emily

Now that you have clarified that you have paid nothing to these people yet - I tend to agree that it looks like a badly or unplanned mating rather than callous dealers - they would not let you leave with a pup and not part with any money - that is their driver.

If it were me, for my piece of mind, I think I would have to get in touch with them to see if we could agree a price so that you could get a receipt and have proof of ownership etc. Try to sort out the pedigree situation if you can - but I think you might have to cut your losses there. You shouldn't be paying the full whack though for a KC reg pup though - it might be hard but be prepared to haggle.

Good luck - please do let us know how you get on. I'm just glad your girl had found a good home - he could have given her to anybody.

Pam n the boys

its sounds very iffy to me too-how many people hand over a pup free to total strangers, was the stud dog supposedly owned by the kennel that you';d wanted one from, if so contact them ,they may know who owns the sire if its not still with them ,imsuprised anyone reputable would breed from a 12monthPUPPY!!!! ,and whoever told you 8 months is ok should be shot
id say either contact the breeder again ,or contact the owner of the stud! -good luck :)

In reply to Dizzy, the person who told me 8 months was an idiot from our dog obedience class who breeds 'rotties' which, to my knowledge have all either been put to sleep for aggression, or health problems, or taken away from her due to behavioural problems, which I know has all been down to her, so I should have known she was talking rubbish as usual!!! one of those people who thinks they know everything about your breed but hasn't even the first clue about their own, never mind another, we have often suggested while at club that she, not the dogs should have been 'put to sleep' ;) :D
Emily

Hi Emily

I have to agree with some of the other posters sounds to me as if it was either an accidental or ignorant planned mating and if the bitch was only 1 year old the KC would not register the puppies. I suggest that you contact the breeders and pay a nominal amount for an unregistered BT puppy and get a receipt so that you are the legal owner. By a nominal amount I mean that unregistered BT's are around about the £150 mark.

If you would like to e-mail me direct I will try to help by putting you in touch with either the breeder opf the stud dog or the breeder of the bitch, so that you can find out whether your bitch is eligible for registration.

I breed BT's so will be able to help you trace the history a little more.

Regards

Daz

Though I am loathe to disagree with fellow posters, I would be tempted to leave well alone. They have almost certainly had this litter by mistake, or didn't realise that they couldn't register the puppies, till it was too late, and didn't want to contact you to tell you, so have probably thought it is easier to do and say nothing about it and let you have the puppy. If you feel you really must pay something for it then I would go and see them, give them what you think is a fair price and get a receipt. You were invited to take the puppy without payment, and told that you would be contacted, which you haven't been, so you have not broken any agreements with them. More the other way around. If you are happy with your dog and dont really mind that its not registered, then they are extremely lucky. Most purchasers of pedigree puppies really do want a registered one, even if they are never going to show or breed, and you could have taken the matter further - especially if they were advertised as KC Reg in the advertisement - Trade Descriptions Act and all that!! I expect they are quite worried that one day you will get in touch and demand your reg papers!!