Although I wont be showing Fagan I have continued taking him to ringcraft as I meet up with his breeder there and other Irish owners.  It also gives Fagan a chance to socialise and it all helps with training.  The last couple of weeks he has been a little sod he used to be so perfect but not now he will stand ok but where as he used to stand solid until he was told otherwise he fidgets after a bit which in a way is understandable as he is only a pup.  The worst thing is when I move him, he is ok to start with but then all of a sudden he starts jumping at me, growling and grabbing at the lead, he claws my arms and bites really hard.  This week just took the biscuit, I have a bruised arm and claw marks all over them, he also managed to claw my face and now I have a huge claw mark down my face :( he is impossible there is no way I can continue when he acts like this and all I can do to stop him is put him in a down stay which he does with no fuss   Its strange because he only seems to do it at ringcraft, last week he even dragged me outside (for a wee I thought) and as soon as we got outside he turned and bit me really hard, its not that he doesnt like ringcraft because he gets so excited when he realises where he is.  Occasionally he does it at home to my boyfriend when they are playing but never to this extent.  I really dont know what to do with him, he is only 6 months, is this his kevin stage already - help :(

Claire

Have you told him "NO?" Does he know that that is a BIG, HUGE NO NO? My Dobe did that once while playing too wildly. I shouted, "NO BITE!" And really meant it. He got the message and has never chomped into me since. That was quite a while ago. He knows now that that rough stuff is too much for us fragile humans.

Perhaps he's finding the demands of ringcraft too much to cope with at the moment?  How do you handle it when he plays up?  Could he be attention seeking?

When he plays up I stop, tell him no (firmly ) then attempt to continue as soon as he starts biting me hard there is nothing I can do with him other than put him in a down stay because he is all teeth and claws :( .  Ringcraft to him is fun, he loves going in there and spends most of the night playing with the other Setters, we only usually have two or three "go's".  Thinking about it though it might be more to do with the whole running thing.  At a "fun" dog show at the weekend I tried to move him and as soon as we start running he starts jumping up and biting the lead and my hand.  How would I handle this, there are only so many times i can say no and start again :rolleyes:

If he enjoys the running, then I'd simply pull him up (without saying anything) and stand at the side and wait -  let him work out that playing up means he doesn't get to do the fun stuff......

I think it is a mistake to make any training area also a play area with other dogs. It is confusing to the dog & he will see the ringcraft as a place for dog games & hence the mouthing etc of you

Do you let anyone else do his ringcraft training ? This would be one way of breaking the cycle & re educating him in to understanding that ringcraft is not playtime

I personally will let the dogs greet each other but not let them play in any place I take them to train.  Putting on a human level are children allowed to play ad lib in the classroom-no classrooms are for enjoyable structured learning not ad lib playing. Ad lib playing is for the playground(hence the name)

I think you could be right there,  I will have to do some more practice with him at home, that way I can spend more time stopping and starting without feeling that im holding people up :)

I speak as a person when I go to ringcraft that gets asked to handle dogs just like yours, so you are not on your own.

One reason that a dog will behave better for a"stranger"is that they do not know how that person will react nor are they able to read the body language. I've been handling & training other eople's dogs from the age of 8.

A local breeder who had a really lovely young dog who just would not handle for her, he laid down, did twirlies etc at ringcraft yet at obedience he was attentive & well behaved. The reason for the differnt behaviour was the obedience class is much more formal & at ringcraft it was much more relaxed & he misbehaved. I suggested she did as I do for my puppies & do all obedience training at home off lead & I took him for his ringcraft

Training a dog off lead means both handler & dog have to really focus on centrating on each other. There is a much closer bond built up as the dog has to want to be with the handler to be able to be trained.

Once I had cracked the movement & stance(he's a lab)& his owner cracked the off lead training, we switched to doing ringcraft at obedience classes & obedience heelwork at ringcraft. Evetually the owner has regained control & he's been quite successful at shows. He no longer misbehaves at ringcraft, but it did take a month or so before the penny dropped that his owner didn't do playing at ringcraft & he does show  really well

That's good, but remember that practise at home won't teach him to behave under the extra pressure of distractions in the hall - that's what you do ringcraft for (I think, I'm not a show person ;))

i dont think it can be distractions because he is fine at obedience classes, im sure its the running thing - ill give it a go :)

This soes sound like overexuberance.  A lot of Agility dogs get worked up like this and can end up mouthing the handler hard.

My Champion bitch was awful about this and still does this at times, even though she is nearly five.  Unfortunately in her case she has realised that in the showring I cannot stop and reprimand her for her behaviour so she saves these antics for then :D  I used to take a sqyurty bottle in the ring with me, but I feel in Open bitch she should be above that by now, provides light releif for the ringsiders at least :D

Most puppies will prance and lead bite, or grab your clothes when you start to move them quickly.

Try atarting off at a very brisk walk and only gradulaly moving faster using an extended stride rather than moving your legs faster, also keep your hands still.

Also as soon as he does it stop and go back to the start, no moving until he calms.  You may have to go back sevearl times, and he will realise he doesnt get to move forward until he does it properly.