Fagan (Irish Setter) is 5 months old now and is doing well with his obedience and ringcraft training.  The only problem I have with him is he wont retrieve, I know he is a Setter and they werent designed to retrieve but is there a way I can teach him?  Every morning I take him across the farmers field at the back of my house and I take his puppy gundog dummy he loves it and bounds around me until I throw it, he chases it, picks it up then either throws it around a bit, runs around with it in his mouth or just drops it and goes off on some scent :(  Its so frustrating he just wont bring it back to me, ive tried calling him when he has it in his mouth and he just drops it and comes running back to me - the amount of times we have lost his dummy in the stubble is unbelievable

So should I just give up and think of another game for him or is there a way to train him to bring it back ?

Claire :)

We had the same problem with Kayla, a HV, who didn't really start understanding the game until she was about 18 months! We kept a line or flexi on her, threw the article and when she picked it up gently pulled her in. Once youv'e done this a few times and rewarded them by throwing the thing again they start to get it, but sometimes it more fun to them to play on their own! You could also try running when he has the dummy in his mouth, he should in theory follow you then you can add the word 'fetch' or 'bring' rather than using a recall word. I understand your frustration, I like her to bring the thing right to my hand rather than drop it in fromt of me and this can be really irratating, but now I've discovered it all depend on what i throw. A tennis ball, or other 'plain' ball is fine, as its more fun to chase, but one of those balls that has a piece of rope attached to it are no good, she just flings them around! Frisbees, with no middle, are fine too as they flip up over her eyes so she has to bring it back to my hand! Try practising in the house too, more controlled environment, less distractions and you can do lots of 2 minute sessions throughout the day!
Hope this helps
Emily

Hi Claire, now I know Fagan is not a great fan of food but does he like liver? You could try firstly at a very short distance- giving him a little bit of liver when he returns it, making him believe that it appears from inside the dummy ;)  I learnt that one on here from Digger I believe, it certainly works with my Labs but they love food.
For anyone at the start of training a puppy, retrieving is natural at apx 10-12wks and this is the time to teach them, very easily. My lab is 9-10 wks and retrieves naturally.

ALL dogs can be taught to retrieve!

At the moment you are making the classic mistake that a lot of people make when "training" retrieves and asking him to carry out several things at once.  Throwing things for "natural" retrievers works a great deal of the time but IME training all the differing components involved in the retrieve works out better.

Sit and wait at heel
marking
going out
picking up
returning
presenting
giving it up
finishing

that is a lot of stuff!

I back chain and set the criteria.

Eg sit in chair with dog in present and article in my hands, shape the dog to hold the article first by reinforcing looking, touching, taking etc.

Then I move the article about to the left of me, right of me, then gradually lower it to the floor until the dog will then take the article from the floor.

Then I move the article further away, put it on a chair etc etc etc.

By this time the dog understands the game, "pick the damn thing up and do a present"

You can then move on to throwing it and then adding the other criteria separately and then chain the different behaviours together.

It is not that the dog won't retrieve more it does not understand the game because you have not taught it correctly and thoroughly  :D

HTH

Fagan is a fan of food, just not the food which appears in his bowl ( :rolleyes: ) so the liver rewards work fine - when he brings the damn thing back :D :D

It looks like im starting from scratch then, indoors he is fine and will bring it back I think outdoors there is too much excitement going on for him.  What commands should I be using for him to fetch, bring it back, give it up etc ?

I am determined he will do this, at his new obedience class last night once again I was told Setters are scatty with half a brain I will prove them all wrong.

Claire ;)

I clicker train so don't use any commands until I have got the behaviour and then I have one command for the retrieve which is "hold it" which to the dog means "run out, pick it up, return, sit in front with thing in gob until it is taken out" :D

If you make the retrieve exercise more exciting than everything else the dog will become the Martini dog, you know, any time, any place, anywhere :D

To Fagan eating the bits of corn the combine missed is more exciting than anything else :rolleyes:  maybe ill make him a corn dolly to retrieve :D :D :D

:D
Fancy someone telling you Setters are scatty, i know what they mean but that's not polite nor kind to a Setter owner! Go on, get her to do a great retrieve and jolly well show 'em!!

I tend to use Tohmes method (most clicker trainers would) because it is easier for the dog esp. one who is not a natural retrieve - if whippets and akitas can be trained this way, so can Fagan ;)

If you're not sure exactly what to do (can sound odd if you haven't backchained before) just come back and check. If you just want a fun retrieve, pop into Pets at Home and look for Karen Pruor's clicker training for dogs book (just flick through if you don't want to buy it) and check out the photos of a whippet being taught how to retrieve, it may help.Just a thought anyway.

Lindsay
X

Loads of people have told me Setters are scatty, even my vet told me they only have half a brain cell, im used to people saying this about my dogs as I grew up with Afghans apparantly they are thick too :rolleyes: Well Fagan and I will show them, I might actually give clicker training a go, ill have a read throught the book in pets at home first though ;)

The reason why Setters appear to be scatty is that their job of work demands a perpetual motion machine and unfortunatly most owner do not realise this. :)

Labradors, particulaly those with some working blood in them will retrieve naturally although I did once have one who did not retrieve. I trained her pretty much in the manner outlined by Tohme except in that I never use clickers. As in teaching anything, break it down into the smallest bits and only bring them all together when learned, even then, only adding one bit at a time. Taught like this my old Mandy was just about the most reliable retriever I have ever owned because she knew exactly what was expected of her.

Best wishes, John

Just thought i would let you know that I have a friend with 5 setter's all of which work class B, 2 of them didn,t get there untill 3 yrs old, but it proved it can be done. Go for it. Cheers Viv

i am having the same problem with my golden retriever, she will not fetch anything back

You need to give her a reason to...............

Work as Tohme says in her post. I start by GENTLY opening her mouth and placing the dummy/dumbbell in it. I don't make her hold it at this stage because I don't want her to try to spit it out. All the time I'm telling her to hold and also telling her what a good dog she is. I want to be able to praise her but if she spits it out I will not be able to. Everything should be aimed at making it impossible to get it wrong. Gradually I start to leave it in her mouth for a few seconds only. I put a hand under her jaw to hold the jaw up to stop her spitting it out. Start using a command to get her to release it. I along with most working gundog people use "Dead". As the dog starts to hold until I give the release command I start doing very short stays and short pieces of heelwork. By this time I'm starting to encourage the dog to take from hand rather than opening her mouth. I'm now starting to do a short recall whilst she's holding the dummy. Once she's taking the dummy from my hand on command I gradually lower it to the floor. Once she is picking it up from the floor I place it just out of her reach and give the command so that she has to get up to reach it. Think about it, I have a retrieve and she never even realised she was doing it!

All that is needed now is to gradually increase the distance and tidy it up. Simple really!

Best wishes, John

John and Tohme's advice cant be bettered :) I can offer hope to those whose dogs dont yet know the joy of fetch. Morse is a greyhound/Pointer cross who LOVES playing games of fetch yet he is not a natural retriever and had to learn the game. It takes patience and tons of liver or other treats, and I started with a sock containing his fave treat tied in a knot at the top, then followed the pattern described. Now he just plays it for fun and we use gun dog dummies, the air kong, tennis ball on a rope, tiny teddy,gloves pig ear on high days and holidays - you get the idea. If I drop something in the house now Morse is right in there, holding it up for me with a big grin ( so he drops it sometimes, but hey no-ones perfect!) For a smashing fetch and present he gets to play tuggy as his big reward now. Any dog can be taught to do anything within his physical capabilities as long as you find the right triggers - being part sight hound Morse tears out after moving objects enthusiastically, the Pointer part loves nosing about in bushes. Have a go and have fun.

Ditto Louise, my 15 month old retriever is just not interested in retrieving either. Rabbit poo, smells, birds and megan are far more fun! We have started with this method though so fingers crossed!

i will definately give this a method a go it would give me great joy to throw and ball and have meg bring it back as it stands at the moment my partner and i are doing all the retrieving of balls sticks toys etc