last year my english setter bitch was accidently mated to my neighbours dalmatian, the puppies produced were to die for and i already have homes waiting for the next litter, my bitch will be coming into season in a months time, does any one have any details of dalmatian stud dogs in the south east, BAER tested hip scored etc.
thanks
sugarhouse@hotmail.com

I seriously hope you are winding us up!! Why would you want to deliberately breed more mongrels??
No reputable stud owner who has paid out good money for a decent dog and paid to have his health tests done would even consider letting him be used to produce mongrels.
Archer

This has got to be a wind-up! No reputable breeder will deliberately set out to produce cross-breeds, when resuce centres are overflowing with them. No reputable stud dog owner will allow his dog to be wasted like this. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear.

By the way, I'm assuming your bitch has been BAER tested too, as deafness is a problem in English setters too.

guest, Im sure the puppies were very nice, but as the other posters have suggested, you may have great difficulty in finding a stud dog owner who is willing to breed to produce cross pups.

although it IS good that you take an interest in having health tests done, which is more than some people bother to do. :-)

No KC registerd Dalmatian stud dog owner would touch that bitch with a barge pole. Simply too many recrimantions to be had if they got found out and the looks that people woul give them would be enough to make the person go into hiding and it could ruin the dogs chances of EVER being used at stud again!

Guest why not breed a nice litter of English Setter pups if your bitch is a good example of her breed?  If she came from a reputable breeder they may be a ble to help yu find a compatible mate for her.  You will get even more pleqasure from producing a nice litter of her breed.

As another poster suggested you should get her BAER hearing tested and Hip Scored, and eye tested if appropriate for the breed.
:D

I'd like to know why people like 'Archer' feel they are being wound up. What is wrong with cross bred dogs? or mongrels as you incorrectly called them. Its a shame that so many owners of pedigree dogs feel so superior to other owners of non pedigree dogs when at the end of the day the most important thing are owners who love and respect dogs of all kinds.
I myself own Bull Terriers and Staffs and I've never looked down on any dog that is not a pedigree. The first dog I owned was a cross between a Staff and Bull Terrier and to this day I maintain that it was the best dog I've ever had and it was an intentional cross. Besides why would it be such a disaster for a good stud dog to be used on a bitch of another breed? will the stud become contaminated by such an encounter! or maybe there are canine sexually transmitted diseases present in some breeds that could be passed on to the stud and thus infecting a different breed!!, the mind boggles at all the potential problems. I'm sure the stud is not fussy which breeds he can mate with and I would suggest that providing no fee  is exchanged for the encounter (so the owner of the stud can not be accused of being greedy) then there is no problem, they are not show dogs and the pups can't even be registered. From the studs point of veiw the net result is contented dog
Guest has already stated that there are homes waiting for these pups, therefore for argument sake we can assume that they are not intended for rescue centres. I suspect that guest has asked for a good stud to ensure that the pups are healthy.
At the end of the day all pedigree dogs were 'mongrels' once and in fact Bull Terriers are thought to be Staff x Old English White Terrier x Spanish Pointer x DALMATION.

Actually Quarryman, what I think most people on this site have an issue with is people deliberately breeding cross-breeds, and then selling them for vastly over-inflated prices as the 'newest bestest thing' - with the age old (and flawed) argument of hybrid vigour.  That's certainly why I'd be wary of this. 

As people who breed any dogs know, those guaranteed homes also tend to melt away when the puppies are there and ready to go, so wouldn't count my chickens on those either.  I have two bookings for a litter where the bitch hasn't come into season yet - they tell me they're happy with the timescales, but we'll see when it comes to reality.

We all love dogs here, whatever size, shape or colour - or I certainly do.  Personally, I wouldn't choose a cross-breed or mongrel (or whichever terms you prefer), as I start with puppies and I'd like to be more sure of size, type and temperament.  I also prefer to buy health-checked.

Each to their own though ......... and this is not meant as a confrontational post :D

Marina

Quarryman wrote

>> What is wrong with cross bred dogs? <<

There in lies the problem, who knows, could be almost anything judging from those we meet and those who finish up in rescue. Accidental cross breeding by mistake can happen although not as often as it seems to, but to do it deliberately is totally without reason except to line the breeders pocket. The only exceptions from this are where the end result is to be used for vermin control. In other words crossbreeding should not happen just because you can, with no thought or reason except to make money. 

When someone can give me a reason for breeding cross breeds and mongrels then I will consider that reason and if the thinking has a good foundation I will be behind them in their efforts, till then I will do all in my power to discourage this sort of breeding that leads in so many cases to cruelty. 

To be fair, there are deliberate cross breeds for reasons other than vermin control etc

eg: Labradors x Golden Retrievers for Guide Dogs
BC x GR obedience dogs
BC x GSD WT Trial dogs et al

However, they do meet your criteria for being bred for a specific purpose and do not cost zambillions of £ :D

Yes, what I meant was for a purpose other than making money, for working or sport or any other reason is fine, all I ask is a proper moral reason.  Talking of the GDB I bet they cringe everytime they hear of another Lab cross litter, after all they did a lot to start all this nonsense off.

Just out of interest why do the guide dogs use , or did use, this particular cross.  I have a goldie of 18 months and he is still manic! Is the lab a calming influence?!!

They thought it would prove useful to breed a pup that did not moult and had Lab working ability, found it did not work in a number of ways and stopped the breeding programme. Think they now only cross similar breeds as they have a definite end in mind, the guide dog, not a money making enterprise with a fancy name, mind you one could almost forgive them if they did at least it would serve some good purpose that was not totally selfish.

Hmmm, I think you will find that the labrador/GR breeding programme is alive and well as there are currently two such puppies up for sponsorship from the GDBA....................

Was talking Lab x Poodle and the dogs breed by the GDB are bred for a purpose other than making money, and as with the Lab/Poodle trial if it does not produce the wanted working results it is dropped, but I guess you know what I meant.

We need Smudgley on here to answer this because she works at the GDBA breeding centre! Basically I think the Lab/GR cross is to give a bit more height and calmness to the labrador - many GRs are very big nowadays, and labs very small. There are several Guide Dog puppy walkers in my village (we are only 4 miles from the breeding centre) and the crosses are definitely in the middle sizewise.

As far as I can remember when I toured the centre the crosses are only between different types of retriever, whether Lab/Golden, Lab/Curly coated etc. They don't cross Lab/GSD, for example.
:)

Guide Dogs have found over many years that the Lab x GR is one of the most successful types from a training aspect, having the highest percentage of qualified dogs.

Guide Dogs are currently introducing some different breeds to the programe.

Guide Dogs are also trying some different crosses (in a very controlled & carefully monitored way) and have crossed Lab x GSD. Which are proving very successful.
This is a cross that has been very successful for a GD school in Holland.

Hooray! The girl with the finger on the pulse!

It's over a year since my tour, and there weren't any GSD crosses at all then - in fact the only GSDs were the police litter (very cute!). The curly-coat stud was a nice boy - that's a very strange textured coat, isn't it? I've seen what must be one of his offspring in training in Leamington - looser curls.

At least all the Guide Dog breeding animals are hipscored etc.
:)

Hi JG, the GSD x Lab is a new venture for us, although the 1st litter must be around a year old now.

Yes all GD breeding stock are hip scored & elbows/shouders x-rayed & eye tested & heart tested & have a skin test & temperament test.

They have to be pretty special to be bred from. :)

And is it true, or something I've dreamed, that the GDBA retains ownership of all the dogs? Even the pups that aren't selected for training?

Yes JG. GD's do retain ownership of all dogs.
However if someone adopts a dog, they become the registered keeper & Guide Dogs is the owner, this means that responsibilities for the dog are taken care of by the keeper, but should there be a problem, Guide Dogs could take the dog back at any time.  :)

Perhaps, if all breeders (of pedigrees, crossbreeds and mongrels) would do the same, there wouldn't be so many problems with homeless dogs ... and perhaps fewer people would breed casual litters if they were permanently responsible for the offspring ...

I have met the lab x GSD puppy the guy here walks and he is not as cute as the goldie :)

But then again i dont like GSD.

I know its not about looks BTW this is only a lighthearted post :)

Hi,

The guide dog association not only use Goldens x Labs they also use pure Goldens as well.Not all Goldens are manic either.One of my 3 Goldens went through a teenage period was slightly difficult no problem now at 16 months the other older bitch never had a days problem just depends on the dog and I have 2 younsters that at the moment are not any problem and these do have a very specfic training programme in place and they select potential puppies very carefully for the job and asessed all the way through their training which if they fail they are given to the right home with a family:-)

Briony:-)

Hi,

Forgot to say my friend that also breed Goldens and shows them the Guide Dog Assoc have taken puppies from her for training and I also  know other breeders of show Goldens  where the Guide Dog people have taken puppies.
People are forgetting that a Golden male is 22-24 inches and bitch20-22 inches.
I have a Golden male 24 inches but looks bigger because of his correct thick double coat  giving the impression bigger than actually is .
currently actively showing at the moment around the country i'm more concerned bitches are  getting too small but thats going off topic another issue.

Briony:-)

So a Golden male is about 2 inches taller than a labrador male (and the curly-coat male is about 27 inches tall). That would make a lot of difference for a tall person holding the handle of a dog's harness.

The guy sat next to me at work is a puppy walker for the GDB, and at the mo has an 8 month old GSD Lab cross, so they are using GSD at the mo!

They are using all sorts; two longhaired weimaraner puppies have just been taken on.

Using yes, breeding no.

It is not just the height per se but the length of stride of the dog which can make an awful lot of difference too hence why some breeds are not used that often......................

Quarryman
I have nothing against mongrels/cross breed dogs...I was raised with a beautiful border collie/rough collie/lab cross...and he was my constant companion.I DO however have a problem with deliberately breeding crosses just because they 'look pretty'!! If a dog is bred for work etc ,fine but to breed a mongrel/cross breed for money or looks is irresponsible.I love the look of many breeds ,Huskies for example, but having done my research I know they're not for me.You can't do this with a mongrel.
For a start when crossing 2 breeds you can never tell who the will take after ..in looks or temperament.
Secondly ,I believe that if you want a cross breed...there are plenty in rescue centres that are in desperate need of good homes and so there is no need to be creating more.
Thirdly,as far as you saying about the difference between mongrels and cross breeds...I know the difference however most pedigrees used to produce these cross breeds are likely to be of dubious pedigree themselves otherwise,if they were nice examples and registered surely they would be breeding pedigree pups.
We all love our dogs on here and want the best for dogs in general and breeding mongrels in supply a waiting list is not responsible....how many people say ohhh aren't they cute...I'd love one of them and then change their mind when the pup is there or when they've got it home and its chewing and messing etc...
Archer

Aalso the initial poster says the pups were ;ovely.  I am sure as pups they were, but5 what kind of adults they will be is yet to be determined.  At only a year old they are not fully mature.  Setters and Dalmatians have very differ3ent characters.  which breed will they take after.  Male dally's are not the easiest of dogs to handle sometimes around other males.

It would need at least another couple of years to determine if the cross pups were a successs, and then it would be impossible to know if another litter from a differnet sire woudl be similar.

The whole reason for choosing a pedigree sog is some predicatabiliyt in what you should get in terms of looks and basic behavioural leanings.

Archer
Putting it in the context of your last post it does make sense not to deliberately breed cross bred dogs, I just felt that your first post read a bit snobbish. In my experience with my old Bull x Staff was that he was such a unique dog in so many ways that I still miss him even today (after nearly 20 years) but maybe he was  a good cross because the breeds used are similar.

Quarryman
I'm afraid I've probably been posting on here a bit too  long(but can't give it up I'm addicted).We all get a bit 'peeved' at times with the continual posts for studs,'rare' breeds etc and I guess I was a bit 'sharp'.However I stand by what I said..
I'm not a snob ...I love dogs and would never wish one any harm.My last staff was pedigre....supposedly but I think he had a bit of something else in there aswell LOL.He weighed 28Kg of pure muscle and stood 19 inches to the shoulder...he was however the best dog in the world and there will never be another to equal him(we lost him last year at the age of 4)
Archer

All puppies are lovely!! How did they grow up? Oh sorry, you won't know yet because it's been too soon; they won't be adult (with dogs that size, physical adulthood is at about 2 years old - mental adulthood at about 8!). So how do you know it's a good mix in the long-term?