No, not my eyes, :) am I the only one to wonder why at least 90% of requests we get from people wanting puppies or knowledge of breeders are either for Giant Mastiffs, Teacup Toys, the latest or non-recognised colour, designer cross or the sort of breed that most of us think we may have heard of but have to look it up to see what it is.

Is it because these pups are hard to find or are there really that many people who want a pup for what seems to be a novelty factor with not much interest in anything else. Am I being clinical thinking like this, may be I am. Most of us having set our heart on a particular breed would be doing research into that breed to find out more about them and in doing that would stumble across a breed club or a breeder so would have little need to ask on here for a breeder. Understand the question that asks for size, longevity, health and care, even understand someone asking the price, they are using us to do their research but to have no idea how to come by the 'rare' or unusual breed they appear to have set their heart on seems to me a little strange.

Because most of these people are guests and never join or post a follow up it is difficult to know if they find what they want or their reasons for wanting it, bet most of us can say why we have the dog we have.

Dont think youre clinical Jackie or even cynical there are those who want an accessory rather than a dog and use the net as the fast way to source one. Another explanation might be they havent understood how to use the site search facility and stumble onto guests. I have my dog because we couldnt agree on a breed and decided to give a homeless dog another chance, best decision we made. :) After my observations this week, Im committed to rescue/rehoming/second hand/unwanted/passed over dogs now, pedigree or not.

Morning. I think you are quite correct in your assumption. I have had a few Danes over the years and when deciding on a change of breed it took me three years to make a decision and another two years to get a puppy! The internet is a truly marvellous tool but that's all it is, a tool. One only needs to look in the Exchange and Mart to see the number of pups of these breeds. Obviously some of these are responsible breeders. I hope I am wrong but I think it is only a matter of time until one of these mastiff type breeds gets into the wrong hands and somebody gets killed. Going to dog show later to cheer myself up! :-)

I often wonder, with some of those posts, if they are genuine enquirers, or poeple who actually have a litter of the supposed type mentioned in the post. and are trying to drum up some  interest!  (OK so I am cynical)
bye
Gwen

Oh, Gwen, that is even more depressing than the thoughts I was having. :(

Not everyone wants 'teacup toys' as fashion accesories. I would like a papillon cause i one had a 3rd hand yorkshire terrier and i loved her character now she only lived for 3 years with us but i miss her and thats why i would love to have a 'teacup toy' again. But thats not to say that i dont agree with you, i read the guest post and all they seem to be is 'where can i find this breed..' and 'where can i find that..' it is very rare that you come across a post that says 'i need help with this problem...'

Sarah xxx

Sarah, a papillon isn't a 'teacup toy'! It's a regular toy breed. A 'teacup' would be an undersized, stunted one.

Sorry jeangenie i apologize i jumped to conclusions having never heard that phrase before and i thought that you ment just small dogs, sorry. I guess im just living up to my username!! :) I do think that buying teacup sized dogs is wrong and i agree that most people just want a dog that looks different i also makes me think that these are the sort of people who would buy of a bad breeder just to get the dog that they want. :(

sarah xxxx

There is an easy and good way to have a one off, give a mongrel from a rescue centere a home!!!

If you think you are bad Sarah I have people who come to me with 'standard' Yorkies for grooming.  Bless em.  Apparantly they tell me there are standard and minature Yorkies.

Think you are right Brainless. Met what was called by its owner a Dwarf Golden Retriever, she had acquired it from a rescue centre. Looked like a reasonable representative of a NSDTR to me, but not being a gundog expert I don't suppose it was. Probabley a Golden Cross but she must have been told it was a Dwarf Goldie. Mind you I have also met a miniature Rough Collie that was in fact a Shetland, also via a rescue, but in a way I guess that was right.

I know that dwarfism occurs in labs, and a few other breeds, perhaps it was a genuine dwarf goldie?

The only genuine 'dwarf' lab I've ever seen had legs like a basset hound - completely different proportions to a Toller.
:)

No I know what dwarfism looks like and I would rather put my money on it being a Duck Trolling Retriever, than a retriever suffering from dwarfism.

I've met a Norwegian Buhund whos owner had got him from a rescue and was told he was an Akita...but a small one!!! Does make you wonder doesn't it
Archer

Well, I used to have a "giant" Yorkie, 19 lbs. (Rescue from a pet shop.)  Love of my life and I will miss her until the day I die.  

Stacey

Good grief are you sure it was not a Beardie :D Recon someone must have crossed a Yorkie with an Airdale.

Nope, I am 90% sure she was 100% Yorkie. Genetic throwback and puppy farm background (standard, what' s standard?)  I've seen others her size.   They were only bred down to toy size when they became more popular as lap dogs instead of working dogs.  Can you see a 5 lb Yorkie tackling a large city-sized rat?  No way.

Stacey

They think they could deal with anything :D

True.

What happens if people REALLY don't know?  

Say they have seen an article or know someone with a "teacup" yorkie and like them.  On the other side, someone may have read an article about an irish setter or knows someone with one.  There are people out there who really don't know and they aren't trying to start ww3 on here.  There are breeds out there that I have never heard of.  For all I know, they could be a con. 

Not saying that everyone is genuine but education is needed in those instances.  Diving for cover here, but replies along the lines of WHAT, you are stupid, there is no such thing, doesn't help (not exact words of previous posts but to me, it sometimes sounds like it).  Where should people go for advice first?  I would say here is an excellent place as there is a vast combined knowledge.   If you shout at people, they ain't going to come back for more advice. 

Helen (wondered a long time whether I should post this but as I've been a member for a very long time....)

>> WHAT, you are stupid, there is no such thing, doesn't help <<

Helen I can't remember any one replying in such a way, they may say there is no such thing and suggest that the guest looks at something different but to suggest that no help is offered is not strictly true. Just take a look at the present bunch of people asking of strange and 'different' dogs.

>Helen I can't remember any one replying in such a way, they may say there is no such thing and suggest that the guest looks at >something different but to suggest that no help is offered is not strictly true.

I think I said sometimes  - I meant sometimes anyway and not in those EXACT words.  Although, have to admit, it's not been too bad lately. 

I was just trying to get across that not everyone knows everything.

I was just wondering how you got my text to be lighter - it happens on it's own :-D

Helen

>> I meant sometimes anyway and not in those EXACT words. <<

Sorry Helen but what you meant is it has not happened.

>Sorry Helen but what you meant is it has not happened.

so no one has been derogatory about a poster asking about a "rare/designer" breed?

Helen

yes ive noticed theres a lot of that helen, here and on other forums, it seems a lot of people are "anti" purposely bred crosbreeds and "designer dogs". Im not against them myself, we have a mastif cross who is stunning, and I wouldnt swap him for a purebred for all the tea in china!! :-) but I do disagree with the people who charge ridiculous prices for them and make spurious claims.

If crossbred dogs are bred and sold the breeders should at least have the decency to be honest about their dogs. And no-one should be critisized for having one of these breeds, if that is their choice :-)

When you get a forum like this with so many people from all walks of life, youre bound to get some rude people, Ive met a couple allready who seem to delight in being snipey and rude towards inexperienced Guests who ask "silly" questions. The best thing to do is IGNORE them, try to help others and give advise, and dont let them win by putting you off coming here :-)

The best thing to tell people is the truth. If the breed they're after doesn't exist, then no amount of fine words is going to conjure up a breeder for them.
:)

>The best thing to tell people is the truth. If the breed they're after doesn't exist, then no amount of fine words is going to conjure up a >breeder for them.

Exactly, I completely agree.  They will never learn if not told.  I go along with the "ask any questions, no matter how stupid" or you just won't learn.

Helen (haven't been posting much as I've been busy with fieldwork and I start off with a bit of a bang :-D)

Hi Helen,

I don't see any shouting here, but then I've got a very thick skin.  :-) 

I think everyone just gets a bit angry at breeders who are out for nothing but money and are happy to con the uneducated that they have a "rare" breed or something of that nature.  Many if not most of the people that intentionally breed crosses do not bother about health checks for sire and dam before they breed.  No checks for hip dysplasia, or eye problems, or whatever may be commonly genetically passed on by either parent's breed.  And no advice for the puppy buyer either that is relevant to the health of pup .. or honesty about what the crossbreed may or may not look like when it grows up. 

When breeds that are already bred to "unnatural" sizes -- like toys are forced down even farther they almost invariably end up with significant health problems, much more so than the standard size for the breed.  But there is not a lot of concern if someone can charge 2 or 3 times as much for a "teacup" Yorkie, or Chihauhau, or toy poodle, or whatever,  than they could for a Yorkie which fits within the breed standard.   And that is also the real issue and why people get angry, it's concern.

Best,

Stacey

>I think everyone just gets a bit angry at breeders who are out for nothing but money and are happy to con the uneducated that they >have a "rare" breed or something of that nature.
>And that is also the real issue and why people get angry, it's concern.
>Stacey

I've cropped bits out of your post Stacey but I wanted to comment on those bits.  The people who are asking about these breeds AREN'T breeders.

I get angry when people are conned into believing that these are "true" breeds and everyone has a right to but just because people honestly don't realise, why get angry with them?  (as I said to Jackie, it doesn't happen so often now).

Helen

I honestly can't remember people being told they're stupid for enquiring about the weird breeds and crosses they've heard about. They may be told that the breeders of these crosses are preying on the gullible, but that is telling them that there is no need now for them to be one of the mugs! The more people that are told there is no such thing as a "Miniature Yorkshire terrier" (a very common inquiry) for example, the sooner the word will spread and, in an ideal world, the conmen will have no market and be driven out of business ...

if people did the home work into breeds they were considering then they should know the standards for that breed (inc sizes).contact the k.c to get it if needed,all dogs vary in size and shape to some degree but not that much.it depends on the parents and which side they take after the most.
if i owned an unusual dog to its standard it would make me question the line and if there was some thing genetically wrong with it.
ok it happens in some litters down to genetics but then surely a medical condition could be the root course.
what do you class as a rare dog?  in breed or quantity in the uk?
my boy is meant to be a rare breed but there is 100's of them out there when your in the breed clubs.

>if people did the home work into breeds they were considering then they should know the standards for that breed (inc sizes).contact the >k.c to get it if needed

some people don't even know about the kennel club.  They think dog lovers registration is ok cos someone has told them.  I think that in this day and age, people are coming onto the internet to do research.  I know when I've had questions about ferrets, cats etc, I have come onto the internet.

>if i owned an unusual dog to its standard it would make me question the line and if there was some thing genetically wrong with it.

of course, you know but someone people just don't know.

>what do you class as a rare dog?  in breed or quantity in the uk?

it doesn't matter what I class as a rare dog, I imagine that there are a few people out there who don't even know if they have a rare dog, until they do that research.

Look, I was just trying to put another side of the argument into this debate.  That is what forums are for, isn't it?  To discuss various topics.  It would be boring if we all had the same opinions. I know that a lot of people don't agree with me, on a lot of things, but I do try and have a reasoned debate about things.

Maybe I shouldn't have as much time on my hands or go and find somewhere else.  It seems that I've just got people on the defensive and that is NOT what I was meaning to do.  I don't think any of you know me, although I've been here for a while, but I can assure you, I don't come onto boards just to cause trouble.  To give you a background on me, I live in Northumberland, with 6 working gundogs - 2 springers, Holly and Pippa, a gwp, Harvey, 3 pointers, Goldy, Lucky and Milly.  The springers are used for rough shooting and beating and the gwp and pointers are used for grouse counting, although Goldy is retired now.  We also have 4 ferrets and 3 cats.  I do want to be a part of this board and I'm sorry if I've said the wrong thing.

Helen

I think you are being too defensive Helen :) There were just a couple of questions asked ...not digs at you :)

I agree that the GP quite often DON'T know about the KC ..nor about breed standards etc. If we want to make a change then IMHO, the best way is to take out some of the eliteism out of owning a pedigree dog. You get it on here...when people think members here are being anti mongrel ....I don't think there is one person here who IS actually anti Heniz 57 :)

The discussion here appears to be going well in my view ..I have kept out of it but HAVE been reading it with interest :)

> think you are being too defensive Helen  There were just a couple of questions asked ...not digs at you

I apologise if it appeared that way, I just felt I was going round in circles for making one comment whilst the other bits were ignored (not by everyone btw).  You do have to watch what you say on boards, email etc as looking back at the labradoodle thread, one little typo meant my post was read completely wrong.

>f we want to make a change then IMHO, the best way is to take out some of the eliteism out of owning a pedigree dog.

I agree. I do sit on the fence, in a BIG, way about breeding cross breeds as I really don't know which side to land on!

Helen

Heh ..fence sitting is fine ...but make sure, when you come down, you land on the same side as everyone else ..otherwise ....
:p :p :p

ah but everyone who knows me, knows that I always speak my mind, whatever side of the fence I am ;-) :-p ;-) :-)

Helen

>The more people that are told there is no such thing as a "Miniature Yorkshire terrier" (a very common inquiry) for example, the sooner the >word will spread and, in an ideal world, the conmen will have no market and be driven out of business ...

Exactly!  Education!

Helen

totally agree with everything youve said helen! some people on here come across as having no time for "stupid" questions,which makes me wonder why they have even replyed in the first place, a curt "no" to a visitors question does nothing to educate at all. they are asking questions because they DONT know,this is the perfect way to try to help people understand NOT scare them off!

I agree too helen :-) read my  reply post to you above :-)

i agree people should ask questions if they are unsure,but i also think they should ask the question to the people who will give the correct answer.if any one asked me  then i would do my best not to mis inform them,knowing a breed and the write up is not always the same as living with them.at the end of the day the dog you choose should be for life this is why it is important to do your homework first.no one should rush into owning a dog what ever the type,without knowing what to expect.