We've got a kc registered dog, who our child shows in the Junior handling classes and we show in open shows as a hobby.  She has an inverted canine which is why we don't take things too seriously, but the junior handling is going brilliantly.  However, the canine has got so badly inverted it is inbedded in the roof of her mouth and needs to be removed.  The vet has told us that we won't be able to show her anymore, which means no more JH which our little girl loves.  Wouldn't the KC let us keep showing her if the tooth removal was on medical grounds. Have read loads of show reports where the judge has mentioned bad mouths and missing teeth.

Obviously you must do the right thing for the dog. If that means removing the tooth, then do it. Apply to the KC for Permission to Show, with a vet's letter stating why, and see what happens. I thought Junior Handling classes were judging the handler, not the dog - or does the dog need to be eligible to be shown? (Sorry, I know very little about JH).

You're right JH is about the handling, but to enter JH classes the dog must be also entered in its breed class, which is is where the problem arises. 

If the tooth needs to be removed for the dog's sake, then that is what must happen. Maybe the KC will grant Permission to Show. Maybe they won't. If they don't grant permission, can your daughter borrow a friend's dog to handle? But you can't let the dog be in pain.

The tooth being removed must be a first prioity, then get Permissin from th KC to show, you may find you will be knocked in breed classes but in junior handling this doesn't matter!  Is it possible for you to get another dog (buy a new pup/older dog) for your child or can you get a friend to let her borrow a dog!

The vets wont remove the tooth until she's 14 months (3 months time).  So our daughter can take her to the Richmond Show (she's qualified for the semi-finals of JH of the year which are at the champ show there).  We will probably get another dog, in a years time or so, but it seems a shame as she has such a good rapport with this one.  How do other people get away with showing dogs with missing teeth.  I thought that the vets were obliged to report any operations to the KC.

Couple of my Cavaliers(the older ones)have had to have teeth taken out & we got permission to show from the KC with no problems-the letter was nicely worded too. i have a copy that I take into the ring to show the judge

How many vets know the kennel names of their clients? So surely they could only report that a dog named "Spot" owned by "Mr Smith" had been operated on? So I have never understood the KC rule about this. Unless it is to allow the KC to ask questions of the vet in disputed cases? But I have never had a vet report an operation to my knowledge - I have always reported them myself if necessary.

Janet

We're quite new to showing, so don't really know much about the procedures when dog has an op.  I just assumed that the vet was obliged to report it to the KC automatically.  Makes you wonder how many people have had "cosmetic surgery" done and got away with it!!  I'm wondering whether the vet meant that because her mouth was incomplete it wouldn't be worth showing her as it would be a waste of time.  The thing is she's at a disadvantage because of the canine so we know she'll never be a winner, we're more than happy if we get a VHC and we've had a nice day out watching our daughter doing something she enjoys.

Vets aren't under the KC's jurisdiction so there is no way they can be obliged to report it but you are if you sign the standard declaration for show entry (or is it when you register them?). I would send a letter to the KC supported by the vet saying the operation was necessary on medical grounds. The main things where the KC refuse permission is where it is a genetic condition.   I don't see why they should in this case.  As you say the main thing to you is the fun for your daughter of showing - not the winning. You are right she is unlikely to win with a missing canine but you can still show her. I showed a castrated male (with permission) for a while simply to have a dog to show. He very rarely won anything - though he did have one memorable occasion of being shortlisted to 4th in group (in the days when there were only 2 places!) at an open show! But we had a lot of fun. Go for it and good luck!

Janet

Thanks everyone for your replies.  We will definately be having the tooth removed in due course and hopefully the KC will allow us to continue showing her.  The canine became inverted because one of her milk teeth wouldn't budge and forced the new tooth inwards, so I hope they won't see it as an inherited fault.  Will let you know how we get on.

The unpalatable truth of the matter is, if you had had the milk tooth removed in time to save the misalignment of the adult tooth you may well have been able to tell the KC that the operation was because of a retained tooth, if you felt the need to report it at all, but now I fear they may conclude that the operation is to change the natural conformation of the dog, unless the vet will say it was because of some mishap. Unfortunately malformed teeth are a hereditarily problem and I think your application is in the lap of the KC gods.

It depends on what your vet puts on the letter so chat up your vet ;) & if they put something like "damaged tooth removed"you might be ok -after all it's not a lie is it ;) If the tooth has been "damaged"because the first teeth didn't come out in time it has been damaged hasn't it 

Unfortunately, being inexperienced in these matters, we didn't realise that the milk teeth could cause these sorts of problems.  Had we of known we would of had the milk tooth which was stuck in fast, removed.  Still you live and learn.  We'll know better next time I suppose.

Hi

My newfie has had to have operations on both back legs (cruciate ligament damage) would the kennel club class this as a genetic problem? (the vet said it was a development problem as it was in both legs). Kind of given up any hope of showing her as I thought her movement would be affected, but she is recovering really well and has lovely straight legs when she stands and is moving ok though she is still recouperating as it has only been 8 weeks since the last op. I  wouldnt show at big shows just the local open ones if I could, do you think I could get permission or would a bionically enhanced dog be a no no?

Nikki

The only way to find out is to ask. As I understand it, there are several dogs who have been granted permission to show after cruciate ops, so you may be in luck.
:)

Most of the time cruciate ligament surgery is passed by the kc for showing, also I had a  bitch that needed her 2 first lower molars removed and the kc gave me permission to continue showing her there was no problem at all even thought the teeth roots were malformed which caused the bitch to suffer peridontitis at a very early age, the vet couldn't say if the disease caused the malformation or vice versa.

Thanks I will give the Kennel Club a ring and get more info.

Nikki

If the damage is caused by an accident or infection then there is not usually a problem in getting permission but if the vet or you say it is a formation defect then you would be unlikely to get permission to show.

im new to the show world too. am i correct in thinking that any op that is needed for the dogs sake can stop you from showing even if the dog is kc registered? so you have to explain why the dog needed the op to the kc to get permission to carry on showing. i though it was any comestic changes not routine health care etc.
i also got the impression a dog/bitch could be shown if they have been done but just couldn't get best in sex because of it.
why has the dog got to wait another 3 months before the op to remove the tooth can be done? surely dental work can be done at any age, if it has to be removed why wait for more time to pass?

Any operation that changes the dogs conformation is not allowed, that is hips, knees, eyes, teeth, ears and hernias in most cases, although I have heard of toes and loose skin where there should not be looses skin, receiving attention. Some ops can be to correct an accident and if for instance a dog damages a tooth then that can be removed to stop suffering with no problems in getting permission to show where as a tooth removed because it is misaligned or malformed may not.

Neutered animals can win the same awards as intact ones in theory by in fact it is unusual for them to do so.

Marie

I think it's because she's a puppy that we have to wait until she's 14 months before the tooth can be removed.  She's being referred to a specialist, as the vets don't perform that sort of thing.  However, she seems to be rubbing the side of her face and jaw a lot so I'm going to take her to the vets next week to get it looked at again.  It doesn't look too inflammed in her mouth, it may even be something else that is bothering her.  If the KC say that we can't show her, then we can't even though it is a shame that our daughter can't use her for handling.  We just want to do whats best for her health.  Hopefully other newbies will learn from our mistake and get milk teeth removed if they are stuck in fast and causing problems with the new canines.