after reading through some of the comments on the feeding threads----  i decided to go out and search   :)    ive looked high and low, and ive come to the conclusion-no-one must be feeding the "wrong type of food" --as i couldnt find one dog that had CLOSED DOWN ITS BODY   :rolleyes: due to lack of  "real" food.

please everyone keep there eyes peeled. and report all those trying to walk there dogs while theyre closing there bodies down  !!!!  its just not on./

:D :D :D

liberty

Welcome back Dizzy...Karen

I think there is more rubbish spoken about food than anything else. I remember a few years ago talking to Waltham's dietition at Crufts. She literally told me that I was being cruel by giving my dogs a little of what I eat occasionally, even hinted that they would die early from an unbalanced diet!

The simple rule to feeding dogs is, If they like it and if they are doing well on it then you are not doing much wrong!

Best wishes, John

Well said John!!!! If only other people could accept it.

libs x

I think if it works then use it, if ir doesn't find one that does :)

Welcome back Dizzy :)

A very good point Dollface, however there will always be some out there, who believe you are doing your dog an injustice, by feeding a certain brand. I can only think they are lonely folk, with nothing else to think about.

Just ignore them.

liberty

thanks dollface   :)

Obviously not all foods suit all dogs so if anyone has a problem then a change is the order of the day but there is no mystique in it. I remember when the very first complete foods came into the country there was quite a bit of trouble. No one realised just how much water was needed with dry foods but of course we have been feeding them now for so long that there is no mystery in it now. Even an old man like me has finally been converted to the fold!

Best wishes, John

Have to agree with Dizzy, is it any wonder that we get so many questions on here from people who are confused about how they should feed their dogs, thinking they should change the food the pup was reared on because they feel that someone who has suggested something else knows better than the pups breeder. Is possible, of course, but if the pup is in good order, what the hell.

Can understand if someone has a moral reason for avoiding a food manufactured by a particular manufacture, but can't understand some of the emotive language use to try and persuade people to change from one food to another. If you are asked about a particular food you say what you found, as I did with Burns, if asked what you feed you say but beyond that can it matter that much, I doubt it, if your dog is not doing well you change it's food, but how a dog does is more to do with the dog than the food offered.

I was starting to think that I was the only person not constantly deliberating about what to feed my dogs.

I've been in dogs for a comparatively short time, but have still noticed that there are constantly new ways of feeding, training and looking after dogs. I'm in favour of progress, but to be honest, it didnt seem that difficult in the first place!

Jackie, thank heavens for the voice of reason!  :D  

If it ain't broke, why fix it?   

Christine

I have yet to see a dog fed on BARF that would make me change my mind about switching but I have seen lots of dogs fed on completes that look wonderful!

I will see if I have some before and after photos of my pup after being on BARF for a week the difference is amazing and it was noted by people at training who I have never spoken to before.  This of course is my experience and I believe the same - if it isnt broke dont fix it ;)  unfortunately Fagan was very broke and in desperate need of fixing :(

Have to say because a dog looks better on a different food does not mean that food is either better than others or will suit all dogs. It is possible that the original food did not suit and any change would be for the better, it could also be that that particular dog was going through a stage that made him look as if he was doing poorly, the condition of a dog at any particular stage of his life is not down to the food he is fed entirely a good many other factors are involved. And it is impossible to come to any conclusion about anything on the basis of one or even a dozen dogs in an uncontrolled trial.

true, I totally agree that not every food is right for every dog.  Fagan now has meat on his bones and what comes out the other end is solid instead of like water this is after trying burns, naturediet and some stuff the vet gave me (cant remember the name) everything in his situation pointed to the food he was being fed or possibly how he was digesting it but again that is just my (and the vets) opinion.

Im not saying that everyone should be on BARF im just sharing my experience which happens to be a good one, if it was a bad one then I would share that with everyone too.  I can say that I tried my cats of BARF when they were kittens and raw meat went straight through them so they are still on burns and fresh/tinned fish I would never feed them tinned cat food because I believe it is very bad for them, the same as I wont feed them just dry because that is boring,  but again that is MY opinion.  I will be trying my cats on BARF again because they always seem interested in the dogs food but then this is up to me and I wouldnt expect anyone else to do the same and I wouldnt slate someone for not doing the same as me.

Claire :)

agreed, theres no right or wrong, ive used foods that suit one dog, yet another didnt do well on, BUT!!!  were all entitled to our opinion, and no-one likes to have it rammed down there throats.

If it ain't broke, why fix it?

That just about sums it up perfectly to me.

I liken the dog food debate to the horse management debate. WhenI got my first horse I spent my time soaking up information by the magazine load. Natural Horsemanship, Intelligent Horsemanship, Parelli etc etc...so many different ideas it was enough to send you round the twist. I soon realised though that the best way was to continue with what was I was doing and not change for the sake of changing!! If your dog is happy and healthy on the food he is getting and it SUITS YOU - then don't change because you feel you should!

I dont believe in changing food for the sake of it but surely if someone has had problems with a certain food there is no harm in telling others of their findings :rolleyes:

I think it might depend on what in your opinion constitutes 'aint broke'....

Before i changed from complete dry food to raw, i didnt consider my dogs 'broke' in anyway.

Having changed, and now owning dogs who dont smell, scratch, have orange poo/runny poo/smelly stinky farts/revolting breath and teeth, i now revise my previous opinion, and my dogs definately WERE 'broke'.....

I know, certainly in my area at least, a LOT of dog owners who consider bum scooting, constant scratching, licking, runny poos, smell, hair loss (to the point of balding patches) and heavy moulting, dandruffy skin, to be the norm for a dog! In THEIR opinion, thats how dogs are, and there is nowt they can do to change that, and they are WRONG!

Obviously i cant see people on here thinking that way, but it does turn things a little on its head a bit, especially when even some vets consider overweight, itchy dogs to be the norm, and dont pass comment on pongy breath, nor suggest what could be done to SOLVE anal gland problems (other than constantly emptying them for the dog, or surgery).

Em

Well my dogs are not on raw, and don't have any of the symptoms you describe.
Dare I say, some people are pushing BARF/Raw so hard, if it was that good, it would'nt need to be promoted quite so much as it appears to be :rolleyes: I'll stick with my chosen foods, and respect everyone elses opinions on their dog food.

liberty

think i would of noticed fairly early on if my dogs where doing runny poos-had itchy coats and stunk. !!!!!     and  changed food pretty dam quick.    :)

Ditto, dizzy!
:)

Ahhh,
Sorry i made that sound like  i just left him like that until i changed to raw, tahts not actually teh case.

I must have tried every dog food known to man, asked my vet, who was not particularly enlightened (offered me Hills which i wouldnt feed if he paid ME) and said 'well he looks healthy'........

It was only AFTER i c hanged to raw that i noticed the big differences (it was the runny poo i was trying to change!).

Em

But thats the point isn't it.... if it doesn't suit your dog then change, but just because it doesn't suit ONE doesn't mean it won't suit another! The BARF thing basically rules out ALL commercial dog food...hmmm - you ever tried filling two Great Danes up with Chicken wings? :D :D :D

Well you could try a few chicken necks or better still bullocks :)

Can some one tell me when chicken wing tips and necks are fed raw they are 'natural' and when they are used in complete food they are derivatives, always puzzled me.

  ooooer jackie---good question.

Jackie no where does it tell you what the derivatives are, how do you know it`s chicken wings/necks? If it`s chicken why don`t they just say chicken??? Derivatives can come from anything & it`s the manu`s themselves who call it that because they can`t/won`t tell us exactly what it is.
The difference between a raw chicken wing/neck & the way it comes out of a bag in a pellet doesn`t need explaining :)
Chicken wings/necks should only form part of the dogs diet

Christine, Spain.

It's not just neck and wing tips, it is everything that is removed from chickens before we eat them, have watched the process. The birds are stunned, hung on a conveyer and the bits we do not use are removed and thrown in bins for the pet trade, raw and manufactured but mostly raw, the birds or bird parts then go on to be chilled or frozen for us and the bits are left un-chilled. Most of the pet food manufactures use birds killed from the egg producing trade and not the meat bred chickens. If the whole bird is used it is called chicken although in fact it is likely to be the whole bird, head, legs, feathers and all, derivatives is the name given to bits left over from the human food trade or that considered not up to standard for human food, and is what is used in both raw and manufactured pet food.

In most cases this food is good and in years gone by would have been consumed by us, these days we are less into making full use of the animals we kill for food and the pet market gets what is left. However I understand that since there have been a few animal health scares, even the pet meat market has been tightened up and the meat used, particularly in the manufactured market is good quality whole animals that are imported and they have to be cleared as far as health & quality is concerned. The old way with the pet market being supplied from the k*ackers yard is no longer the case.

I`m a bit confused Jackie, there are 2 markets in UK, 1 for animal raw meat foods & another one for meats destined for the processed animal foods?
Over here there are no ready made raw foods for animals, you can get what the butcher doesn`t sell/use or what I do & buy from wholesaler that deals with whole animals, cuts up into peices, freezes & also sells whole/part bodies jointed fresh for butchers/hotels etc.

Christine, Spain.

Well it isn't difficult Jackie ;) They haven't been processed at all when you feed them raw ..but when fed in commerical dog foods they have been :D They might have been mashed up, had preservatives added to them etc etc and you cant tell

I prefer mostly raw but I am a firm believer in ...'whatever suits your particular dog' :) If feeding a commercial food makes you and your dogs happy then I can't see any reason to change. I feed BARF to the Mals but they have had complete ...and they do have dog biscuits as a treat .

Can't understand why there are so many folks out there that insist on one OR the other and make others feel bad about their choice!

i have considered raw but like you how would i fill a leo on just wings etc? my main concern is how do i know what to give in the correct quanity when he is still growing? wouldn't this cause problems for him if he isn't getting the correct levels that he needs.i think alot of it is personnel choice as to what you feed but my lad is on large breed pup to ensure his bones etc have the correct amounts to aid growing at his rate (very fast.) he is bigger than the average leo for his age around 6 kg heavier but at least i know he is getting what his body needs.i would sooner him have to much than not enough.
the main concern i have would be how do i know what to give,how much?
  if some one could give me an idea then maybe i will give it a go............but then again wouldn't it cost as much to feed barf to a large dog as a 15 kg bag of food. his is around £40 which last about 4 weeks give or take.  

I was considering changing to Raw a while back, but researching it, I dont think it would be any better for my dog at all.

Dogs are not wild anymore, so why feed them a wild diet? My does great on Bakers and Pedigree! :D

*Dogs are not wild anymore, so why feed them a wild diet? * You`re right, we`ve domesticated their behaviour but we certainly haven`t changed their digestive tract, thats still the same! It`s not a wild diet I feed my lot, it`s food meant for dogs particular digestive system :D

Christine, Spain.

Try these links for some answers Marie, buy some books & do research :)
http://users.accesscomm.ca/vallarlane/nrdiet.html
http://www.willowglen.com/barf.htm
http://touchmoon.com/dotters/raw/index.shtml
http://www.auntjeni.com/barf.htm

Christine, Spain.

"Having changed, and now owning dogs who dont smell, scratch, have orange poo/runny poo/smelly stinky farts/revolting breath and teeth, i now revise my previous opinion, and my dogs definately WERE 'broke'.....

These were some of the problems my Curtis got when he was fed on chicken wings!!!  :(

Most chickens are raised on chick crumbs and the majority of chick crumbs contain an additive called Avatec.   http://www.compasnac.com/cancvp/11/1187/1187009.htm    So raw or processed you're still feeding chemicals to your dog!    I have no problems with what people feed their dogs as long as the dog looks healthy on it but I do object to the constant "knocking" of those who feed kibble diets by the BARF feeders on this board.   Yes, ask for opinions about feeding but at the end of the day you live with your dog, you can see what suits your dog, not somebody sitting in front of a PC, day in day out.

Not everyone knocks kibble feeders Lily....and if you don't like the replies it is easier to ignore the post rather than to respond ;)

There`s no one on here knocking anybody L/M :) I`ve answered questions that were asked.
Yes the majority of animals bred/raised for human consumption are pumped full of all kinds & it concerns me a lot, not only for animals but my family too!! Thats why I try to buy organic whenever I can :) It`s also true that when the manu`s go on to process food, they then add even more chemicals/preservatives.

Christine, Spain.

Christine and Mel,dont waste your breath on this thread,save your valuable opinions for someone who actually wants to know!
This thread is nothing but a WIND UP,i have ignored it up till now but i couldnt stand seeing you play right into the posters hands!!

I prefer to ignore wind up merchants who start uninformative,uneducated threads such as this.

There,have said my peace on this "thing" ;) and will spend MY time reading informative posts!

christine

Ozzie relax, I`m answering questions thats been asked, don`t see anyone winding me up :D
Many people read this board & my answers might help someone decide which food to feed ;) :D

Christine, Spain.

Marie ..I feed 2 Malamutes on raw ...it isn't just chicken wings you know :) IF you ever want any advise, I am sure there are people here or on the BARF boards who are willing to help. Also, reading one of the BARF bibles might help ....books by Dr Ian Billinghurst are often available in libraries and might give you more of an idea :)