Would someone from your breed of say 70 years ago recognise your breed now? And would they consider the changes in the breed for the better or worse.

Karen

Now I am not quite that old, but in my breed I think yes they would recognise and no, people and the rose tinted specs of time would lead them to believe that they were better then, but wasn't everything.

Fortunately I can say, hand on heart, yes they would. The great dogs of yesteryear would be great dogs today. Champion Gwen of the Wells, 1936 (top right) would still be a star.

What a beautiful bitch Jan!

I noticed the bottom two had what appears to be patched ears. Is this permissable? I was under the impression that patches were not acceptable. Of course, without seeing rather larger pictures it is difficult to see properly.

Best wishes, John

No, those aren't patches, just dense spotting where the spots have run together. You can tell that because there are areas of white within the pigmented bits, which doesn't happen with patches. This often happens on dals' ears for some reason, and doesn't count as a fault, although clearly spotted ears are more desirable.
:)

72 years ago Lorna, Countess Howe's Bramshaw Bob went best in show at Crufts. In those days the show Labrador was much nearer it's working roots, being a far lighter boned dog than it is today. It was another 13 years before the last Dual Champion Knaith Banjo was born and although Bramshaw Bob won Crufts the Countess Howe was rather better known in Field Trials circles both competing and judging.

As I have said before, to me, the first of the modern Labradors was Margi Cairn's Ruler Of Blaircourt and he would not be born until 1956. The Countess Howe was always outspoken about her chosen breed and I am sure the present day heavyweight show Labrador would not be to her taste.

And before you ask, no, I was not at Crufts in 1932! John

I never thought you were John...never crossed my mind..well not for long ;)

I "think" someone from 70 years ago would recognise Staffs, because in lots of ways they have improved but don't think they would approve of the general lack of fitness :(

Karen

No, my breed was in its very, very early stages then, and looked nothing at all like the dogs today.  It wa still only a couple of generations away from the English cocker.  My 2nd breed - yes I think so, perhaps our dogs now are a little stockier, the pictures from back then often show a leggier Pug.
bye
Gwen

My breed had only just been registered by the KC too Gwen but the "breed" other than a few "modifications" on height and colour and slight "change" to ear carriage :) the breed is very very similar - although then many champions and well known show dogs were equally famous for being fighters/ratters as for showing.

Karen  

My breed has changed considerably - I have a print of 'Duc de Groenendael' who was one of the first and he looks like a border collie - big white blaze on his chest , three white paws and one leg half white. the head and coat was much more like a border collie's too. Now I feel they've gone too much the other way and look like black rough collies !.

Yvonne

Well Cavaliers had only just started so they have changed loads

Alsatians again only just recognized as Alsatian(Wolf Dogs) for around 10 years-the dogs then were leggy than the UK Alsatians of today,a lot shorter in body, had better ear carriage, not so over angulated & stronger heads back 70 years ago too -no GSDs of course ;)

BCs not recognized-but the ISDS dogs have changed little in fact the ISDS dogs have not changed much since Old Hemp & Maid days anyway as they were/are bred to work & not to a "breed"standard for well over 100 years let alone 70

Unfortunately I think the Border Collie has been made smaller, much to the disgust of the farmers. Also I think the German Shepherd has changed for the worse in some cases. Sad as these are my two favourite breeds having been brought up with them. :(

Well I'm shocked All the farmers & shepherds I know have never mentioned their dogs being too small & I live in the middle of a sheep breeding area with around 50 farms with sheep within 10 miles. A old shepherd now sadly deceased in the nearest village showed me photographs of him with his dogs from pre WWI(yes pre 1914) & his dogs from the 70's 80's & of course I saw his current dogs,they were all of a similar stamp & size even tho' some were bought in. Likewise the Longton's(I presume you know of them even if you do not know them)they are one of the longest lines of shepherds/farmers in the UK. Their dogs over the years are also very similar. Now KC dogs are different riddled as most kennels are with concentrated NZ & Australian bloodlines-wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. You must know a different set of farmers to me

As to the lovely Alsatian(wolf dog)they were the offspring of poor specimens brought over after WWI Not many people were like Gwen Barrington who brought over lovely types with sound characters. So the poor character became part of the breed standard-noted suspicion of strangers was never part of the Germany breed standard, but only here in the UK to excuse the beautiful but windy dogs that evolved(some kennels still accept this as norm sadly). Give me an ugly good temperamented dog anyday. Not going down the German bad, English old fashioned good route. I don't view the "old"dogs with rose coloured glasses. Try Nem Elliots(the original not the reprints)books, she was brutally honest about the early Alsatians including her own dogs

Now Labradors from old photographs & talking to Gamekeepers The working type hasn't changed that much but the show dogs some look like a different breed altogether, especially in the head & body. That is definitely a breed split into two.

Sorry, I should have clarified that statement about Border Collies being small. I meant to say that the breed ring collies are smaller than the shepherd type collies. I have had collies for more than 20 years and personally go for the larger type. Although the girlies that I have at present are just on the top side of the height that they should be. The boys that we had were lovely chunky types. Sadly they are gone now but I am looking for another one. :)Interesting posts, but, it makes some of us feel a biut on the older side. :):(

I would think that the Irish Setter breeders of 70 years ago would undoubtedly recognise the rich chestnut dogs of today from the colour alone. However from photographs, it looks like our present day dogs are rather larger, there is no height restriction in our standard. Heads too are more defined nowadays, but it is trimming styles and presentation that has changed the look of the Irish Setter, in the show ring anyway. Modern day Irish have alot more coat.

Dawn R.

Plenty of nice ISDS BCs around  I plan my next bought one will be from Cornwall as my two breeders that my last two came from are either deceased or not breeding anymore. Why Cornwall  'Cos I know the puppies will be very well planned,  healthy & the strong type of worker I like, I will also have to pursuade the breeder too. Wh. Won't be for a while tho' as I need to know I will have the time for a new BC. I have never been tempted by The KC only BC, just not my style is the 30 + years having BCs

Hello Moonmaiden,
I am off to Cornwall at the beginning of August for a holiday to stay with my brother and his wife so where can I go and see some BC'S? Might be tempted to bring one back if there are any around. :)

I have PM'd you with a contact :)

Thanks for that. I know Roy as he has often judged me and I have been in touch with him recently as he has a dog from the same line as one that I have at the moment. Didn't realise he lived in Cornwall. So I will give him a ring and see waht he says. Small world. :)

Yep he's a Pasty man now ;) He is still the old Roy tho'