Bailey is doing great in his gundog training. I now have a big problem, how do I retrain him but keep the original training there.   As you know I plan to Field Trial and show him.  Now, walking to heel on and off lead is near perfect, he watches me constantly for hand signals. This is the problem. When I do ringcraft training I cannot get him to walk straight or stop him watching for signals.  I have tried putting my hand in directly in front of him about a foot ahead, but he ignores this and looks at my face for voice commands. I have tried using titbits but being a lab he lunges at this, probably because he has not been trained with titbits and does not equate the treat with correct behaviour, it is just a treat to him. I have also tried to run in front of him so he will run straight but as he has been trained to heel at whatever speed I am doing ie; dead slow or full speed he keeps pace with me. I know it can be done I just dont know how. Can you give me any help, he is only 22 weeks so I think he will be able to do it quite quickly, it is me that does not know what to do.

On another  vein, though still in the gundog theme, We are going on a two day training w/end for novice dog and novice handler this w/end, and the trainers are Jim Gale and Phill Allen. Can you give me any idea of what will be required of us. Bailey has only been to one training day as he is really young.

Sorry to keep pestering you but your posts have been really helpful to me

Thank you
Kay

Hi John and Kayc

John

John had Maureen call by yesterday, she was going on about how much she enjoys coming to club and that she thinks Inca is getting better slowly. She was full of it telling me about the class. Next week I might be able to pop over myself and will bring Arthur or Jack. What time do you start?

Kayc

I show and work my dogs, I find it is easier to teach them to sit and heel for gundog work, but for show craft I teach "To Hand" as the command to stand still. To do this I stand infront of the dog and hold my hands quite low, then as they come forward to look at my hands I say "to hand" and reward, eventually this is shortened to "hand" and they realise they are being rewarded for standing in front of me. For photographs off the lead my puppy will stand off the lead on command. John will explain better than me, as it is similar to a stand stay in obedience.
A friend of mine Stevie a professional handler has different types and colours of lead for her dogs depending on what she wants them to do. So for example if showing she uses a pink fine lead, if doing obedience work she uses a thicker dark blue lead, for just going for a walk she uses a flat yellow lead.  Her dogs recognise the different leads and automatically go into that mode.

Hi Polly, thanks for your reply, but it is not the standing I have the problem with, Bailey stands on command, his command responses are excellent. My problem is getting him to run with me in a straight line and look ahead. At the moment he is looking at my face or hands waiting for a signal, this is making him run slightly off line and I cannot get him to look dead ahead when running or walking. I have tried putting my hand out in front of him when running  but I have to lean over him to get directly in front of where I want him to be looking. But even when I do this he is looking at my face for commands. This results in him crossing over in front of me. Short of getting a long stick and dangling the carrot. We have just got back from a walk, and instead of keeping him to heel I decided to give him a very loose lead so he could just wander and sniff, nope, he walked to heel and constantly looked at me for commands. I keep changing my direction but that just keeps him closer to me as he watches for my changes.,  He stands to perfection and wont move until told. He has been so easy to train, but I dont know how to do this one.

Kay

You know you are always welcome Polly. We start at 7-15.

I'm glad Maureen is enjoying it. Inca has bursts of inspiration then gets sidetracted but she will make out ok.

Best wishes, John

Hi Kay.
Dealing with the last first.
You should not need much for your weekend. Obviously dog, lead and whistle and I would take a dummy or two. You may not need the dummies because they are almost sure to have plenty but if you don't need them they will not take up much room in the car. I always have at least two whistles and lanyards just in case I loose one! Believe me, I've gone out without my whistle so many times that the one I leave permanently in the car has been a life saver!

Remember, Bailey is YOUR dog. Some people are harder on their dogs than I like so I would never do ANYTHING I was not happy about. A friend went on a course a few years ago and the instructor, a well known Field Trials person managed to worry her dog to the extent that it took us a couple of months to get it to retrieve again. It's all part of what I've said to you in the past, The most severe discipline your dog can envisage is the most severe discipline you have inflected on him and if someone else up's the anti then your dog can be badly upset!
These are very well respected people, go and have fun. There is so much you can get out of a course like that.

Now the showing.
Polly pretty well summed it up in her post. Make EVERYTHING as different as possible. Different commands, different leads, everything!

Polly said about different colour lead. It was the old theory that dogs did not see colour but that is wrong! What is seen is a product of what's called Rods and Cones. One controls what's seen in black and white, also very good at detecting movement, the other controls the colour (and I think I'm right in saying depth perspective). We have more of the colour one so see bright vibrant colours whereas dogs have more of the other. The way it was described to me is that to see through a dogs eyes would be the same as watching TV with the colour balance turned down a bit! (A thought for you, We see colours and say that we see the colours as they really are! Dogs see colour but see it differently but they would tell you if the could that they see it the way it really is! So which of us is right?)

If you go to a ringcraft club they will show you how to move your dog. He should move a little wider than heelwork and should come up out of a walk into a steady trot. Hold the lead in the left hand and don't be afraid to stick your hand out to keep Bailey wide. The different commands should ensure that you do not mess up what he has already learned. If he starts to crab so that he can look at you get someone to stand out in front to attract his attention. Obviously this is double handling so you cannot do this in the ring but what you are trying to do is show Bailey what's wanted. That way he gets it right, you can praise him and he learns what you want. (The basis of all training!)

Best wishes, John

Many thanks John, I have thought about getting another person to help but have read threads on doubling handling and wanted to avoid this in training, but it seems it could work until he 'gets it'.

I know Bailey is MY dog and believe me in the years that I worked Megan I have seen some sad sights, I know if I had to treat my dog like that I would stop, Megan loved it and would have done anything to please me.  Bailey is very similar, he has a stubborn streak, but on the whole when in working mode he is as keen and eager as Megan ever was. . I have three other labs and have not even tried to work them because I know it would be so hard for them. Although Tia is coming with us for the weekend, I will do a little training with her, but I have no plans to put her into Field Trials, she is a show and pet dog only, again there is this split. Her build and temperament are so different to Bailey. Sorry to digress. I will try the second person with Bailey and see how we get on.

Many thanks
Kay

Oh yes. Double handling is a big NO NO in the ring But in all training the secret of sucess is for your dog to get it right. If he can, by any means, then you have the oppertunaty to praise him. A way of showing him that that is what you want.Once it clicks the assistant will not be needed.

Best wishes, John