Hi,

I have a staffy cross bitch, who is 19 months old.  I got her her at 14 weeks.

I have two other dogs, both male.  One is ten and is a heinz variety and the other is 7 and is a collie cross.

For most of the time the three get along great, however, there have been four occasions now where the the x staffy has attacked my oldest dog very badly. the last time resulted in both me and my dog being hospitalised for the night (i intervened)
She is pleasant with my other dog, and she is pleasant with other dogs outside, but she has started to show aggresion when passing other dogs if she is on the lead.
She is well socialised and goes to agility training once a week.

The reason i am posting is I could do with some general info about staffies and them living with  other dogs.  I have a number of questions.

1.  Can staffies live happily alongside other dogs
2.  Do staffies have a tendancy to shiver when affraid (this is also being looked at by the vet)
3.  What is the best way to stop a fight once it has started, she simply will not let go, once she has a hold.

Any other help and advice would be most gratefully recieved.

Hi Xena, I'm really sorry you're having such problems. I've got two staffy bitches who get on well most of the time but they do have the odd spat - we keep collars on and then have a handle to grab whilst we say drop! It's not easy if they lock on. Both mine are fairly well trained so usually stop when told, the time they didn't my hubby got the dominant one in an arm lock and prised her jaws apart.
I would be extremely concerned if one of my dogs bit a person - particularly if they ended up in hospital and I'm afraid they would be PTS as it is taboo. Sorry I'm not more positive but what if she bites a child next time?
i think the other issue is that yours is a cross - with what? She may look like a staff but who knows what's in her breeding?
So yes they can live happily together - although mine are never together without supervision so we can nip it in the bud if one gets 'the look' on her!
One of mine shivers if she's stressed or scared - it's like a nervous shake and settles with firm reassurance (I don't make too much fuss as I don't want to reinforce the behaviour).
It sounds like at 19 months your dog is asserting herself and wants to be top dog - I would perhaps try a behaviourist if you can forgive her for biting you and think that you will be able to trust her again.

Hope things turn out well for you

Thank you for your comments.

I have struggled with the fact that i should think about having her PTS, they only redeeming thing is that, she didn't go for me literally, I put my arm in the way trying to split them up and ended up getting involved.
I have tried a behaviourist and I have rearranged the pack order and it appeared to work for some time. however, the morning of the attack she was tremoring very badly and she attacked the dog when someone came and knocked on the door and the dogs started barking.  I am currently having this looked into by the vets as the tremoring was present last time she attacked him.

Many thanks again.

Shivering or 'tremoring' can be a sign of stress.  Did she do this before you 'rearranged the pack order'? 

Yes she did it more before the pack was rearranged, the last time she shivered was 6 months ago and the first time she did it again was the morning of the attack

Not much help, but fights are often triggered by excitement/frustration, such as when the doorbell rings or feeding time, the leads come out for a walk etc.

If she bit you merely as a result of you splitting them up, I think thats a different scenario then attacking you for no reason. I personally wouldnt pts in this situation but would look for the factors that are causing the fights. Are there any common factors as to how they start ?

I have 3 Staffs, a bitch and her 2 sons.

The bitch and one of her sons "shiver" when stressed or excited...and is very noticeable when they know they're going out for a walk and leads to the son playfighting with his mum as an outlet for his pent up excitement...in reponse, his mum reminds him of his place in the pack! :-) 

If I read it right and your bitch attacks (for want of a better word) during a shivering episode, then IMHO this is linked with stress/anxiety/overexcitement and therefore a strong link to outbreak of the fighting - but this of course is only IMHO.

During her shivering, does your bitch also yawn frequently?  This is also a stress sign and is often accompanied by a whining noise at the sametime as the yawn?  If she is doing this also, then it points strongly to the idea of stress/anxiety.

Funnily enough, my bitch is shivering a bit now (but just her shoulder muscles) because she thinks she is due to go out for a walk and hasn't been yet today - I can always tell if she is waiting for a walk or to be fed because she starts this behaviour.  Her sons are fast asleep however and not bothered about going out because it's chucking it down with rain! :-)

As Juliet says, stress/anxiety/exitement could trigger the fighting so if you are aware of the warning signs you should be able to calm the situation before it erupts.  I asked about the 'pack order' because sometimes the pecking order can change depending on the situation and sometimes we can get it wrong and cause more problems.  If my dogs have a pecking order then I am not really aware of it and even if I wanted one of them to be top dog and did everything I could to promote this it could make his/her life a bit stressful and likewise if I tried to keep one of them low ranking.  Just a thought. :)

many thanks to all you for your words of wisdom and advice.....

*there have been four occasions now where the the x staffy has attacked my oldest dog very badly*

*but she has started to show aggresion when passing other dogs if she is on the lead.*

*she simply will not let go, once she has a hold.*

*the time they didn't my hubby got the dominant one in an arm lock and prised her jaws apart.*

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Have you two been on a TV program called "The owners from Hell"? hope you don't end up up in our Park.

I resent that Boxi - how does my OH having to physically split up two dogs on one occasion justify you calling me an owner from hell? You don't know anything about us or our dogs - the lady was asking for help which I was trying to provide - where are YOUR constructive comments?
It seems to me that there are too many people on this forum intent on having a go at other people!

I wouldnt say "too many" but there certainly are those that like to add comments that arent called for - funny , but they always seem to be the newer members too :rolleyes:

i have a 3 year old staff bitch, who, like yours is usually mild in temprement she is not a very
sociable dog and tends to ignore other dogs when off the lead. this usually consists of her turning
her back and running the other way. but every now and then she will turn on a dog for no reason
whatsoever. the vet told us that this is not unusual and certain dogs seem to just clash in personality. as for getting them to part once fighting, once they are locked on it is very difficult.
a bucket of cold water might just shock her into releasing but i doubt it. i would be concerned
if she had bitten me though. my dog has been locked on to other dogs and i have pulled her
off and she has never turned a hair. this to me would be more of a worry than her fighting with
your other dog. sorry to be so negative.

You dont say what the dog is crossed with apart from saying a staffy cross
and you are assuming that the nasty part is the staffy in her
it could be the other part or parts
she could be crossed with a psychotic manic depressive split persona axe wielding maniac and thats the nasty part in her not the staffy part

do you know exactly what she is crossed with and do you know that she is in fact part staffy as many dogs can look like a staffy cross but not actually have any stafford in them at all

staffords do shake at times of stress or anxiety
if shaking was an olympic sport i think 2 of mine would be in with a shot for silver and gold every time :)

and any dog will bite you if you put an arm in the way when they are in the midst of a fight
they may be a lot quicker than us but they aint so quick as to be able to stop themselves in mid bite when an owner puts a waving appendage in the way when they are in a frenzy

i wouldnt consider putting my dog to sleep if it was purely an accidental bite caused mainly by me being in the way at the wrong time
but if the dog turned to bite me deliberatly then thats a different matter altogether

personally i would try to figure out what was causing her to start to tremble and remove the cause if you can

it could also be something medical which would need to be checked out by your vet

if they are fighting and there is no way you can split them then no amount of hitting, shouting or screaming or buckets of water are going to split them up
you need to either pick them both up and throw them in a deep pool of water or a pond or something like that (although theres never a pond handy when you need one :D )
or you need to choke both dogs apart - but this is very difficult to do if your on your own and without doing any danage to the dogs
if there are two adults there at the time you could also lift the dogs up holding a dog each and wait untilo one releases its grip and try to part them then

you may also want to try when you see that the dog is starting to get stressed out remove her away from the other dogs so that she cant do any damage to them

Z