my new pups on arden grange and loves but i have`nt heard anyone esle mention it.does anyone else use it ? s baxter

Yep in my opinon it is the best premium food, it is British, and has the BUAV seal of approval (not animal testing), and for the quality of ingredienrts it is priced very well, especially on the breeder/professional user scheme.

I now use the classic range as I part raw feed, and I also use Autarky.

If I was to feed only complete then I would go back to feeding the original Adult, and the Prestige to puppies and lactating bitches.

When I fed it solely my dogs kept in fab condition, (regrew coat very quickly after moulting and was very firm in muscle tone) and my champion bitch won 5 CCs out of 8 championship shows.

great thanks for the reply brainless

Yep, I use the Classic range too, changed from it to Burns and have now changed back, the hound and their stools are looking good.

arden grange is a food that appeals to me, heard and read good things about it. but i am drawn towards burns, and feed my 12week old on it as he refused to eat nature diet (which i find bazarre). my concern with burns is that in my experience although one of my other dogs was in fantastic condition, i could not get her to hold any weight. (she is on nature diet now and has slightly more coverage). As the new pup will hopefully be in the ring at 6months, i really want to choose the best food to give tip top condition, muscle, bone and health...do people think that arden could be better ?? you mentioned that you would feed prestige to puppies, is this instead of puppy or graduate? many thanks for any feedback.

Expect it depends on the dog but think taking the weight, poo, presentation of the food (no dust) and palatability into account I would chose AG

Yes instead of Puppy and Graduate, as that way Mum and pups were on same food.  Also for my breed the puppy and junior kibble is needlessly small, and puppy I think is too rich, and only appropriate to 8 weeks, so prefer not messing about with a bag of this and bag of that

The prestige has the higherst meat content and is I think 30% protein 20% fat.  I fed it to my now 7 year old bitch who when youyng was practically an anorexic, and she would at least eat enough of it to keep her from looking like a welfare case.

my pup as you know is on A G but has got dry skin like dandruff it`s getting worse the vet said try a different diet said try hill`s but i`m reluctant too as at 9 wks old it`s what he`s used to is`nt it very eary to start changing his diet from this to that food.my cat had a similair coat problem and i was given from the vets a essential fatty acid supplement spray to put on his food but this spray although i wouldn`t use it without the vet advising me to and  it`s out of date it also says 1-2 pump strokes /10kg bodyweight my pups only weights 3.2kg? what should i do may be need to ring the vet back.he is stratching a bit but not loads. s baxter

Are you sure it is dietary, as AG has a high fat content, and I found it kept them in very good coat and skin condition.

If the pups is scirfy had you considered mites.  Rabbit mite is often called walking dandruff, as that is what it looks like.  If his skin was good on it up to now I weould doubt it was the food.

;) ;) not suggesting anything ;) ;) you understand ;) ;) but does your vet sell Hills by any strange chance ;) ;)

Lots of puppies have scurf and it does get worse as the skin the pup had at birth dies and comes away, look horrid because it gets caught in the coat but it will clear as the pup starts to lose his puppy coat.

My last puppy was very scurfy and the vet thought it may be Rabbit mite but it was not and he has grown out of it - don't babies get something simular if they are born with hair think it is called cradle cap.

thank you both yes my vet sells hill`s thats why i`m not sure i want to change, a part from this problem he`s fine and merry.i have looked in his fur and have`nt seen anything but dry flakes of skin would i see the mites quite easily?may be as he`s not really scratching i`ll leave well alone and see what happens.i assume vets are on comission to sell food? thanks again for the replies us first timers need your valuable advice.s baxter

If you pluck (with your fingers) a few hairs where the dandruff is - you should get some dandruff too!  Put it onto a piece of coloured paper and watch with a microscope or magnifying glass.  If it's cheyletiella, you'll see it move!

The difference between Burns and Arden Grange is not necessarily the quality but the ingredients.

Both have the BUAV seal of approval, Burns contains only meat, rice and vegetables (one of their products contains SBP).

The AG puppy food contains:

chicken meal, rice flour, beet pulp, whole dried egg,  brewers' yeast, chicken fat, (preserved with mixed tocopherols), fish meal, ground
corn, linseed, lecithin, fish oil, (preserved with mixed tocopherols), chicken liver, minerals and vitamins.

You can add EFA via FBO; you do not need a vet's say so and they are harmless and you cannot really OD on them unlike CLO.  Easily available from all health food shops and chemists; choose one with a high DHA/EPA content and they can have 1000mg per day in a capsule etc, however you should feed vitamin E with this (natural, not synthetic like the Vitamin E included in commercial dog foods) at around 200 iu per day for a puppy.

If your dog is scratching it may well be a reaction to the linseed in the food or an environmental allergy, one of the consitutents in the food or rabbit mites, fleas etc etc  The possibilities are endless really.

tohme, if you don't mind me asking, which would you choose, burns or arden ?

Well I would not feed either by choice as I have chosen the raw option.  If I did feed commercial food I would probably opt for Naturediet first; if I had to feed a dry food then I would probably choose Burns over AG.  The reason being I would never choose to feed maize (corn) to a dog, brewers yeast or linseed; and I would also stay away from SBP (although I know that one of the Burns recipes includes it).

thanks tohme, i understand where you are coming from. I did choose nature diet as my first option, but I can't get him to eat the puppy variety. One of my bitches is fed nature diet because she was so thin on burns had a huge amount of out put!! The pup will eat hers which is lamb but walks away from puppy flavour, so I gave him the burns which he eats. !! bit of a dilema really.

Think it is a dilemma because we all try to feed the food we perceive as the very best but if they will not eat it, do not like it or do not do well on it, it matters not what is on the label it will do them no good. Dogs have thrived for years despite the way we feed them with our different fads and fancies. Until 40 years ago they got table scraps and tinned food served with biscuit meal and all seemed to manage with it, and goodness knows what was in those tins.

Jackie,

"goodness knows what was in those tins. "

Yup, but it's the same problem today, better labeling only makes it a bit easier.  Do we really know what's in the "derivatives" on the label? 

Stacey

I have just put my two beagles on AG after getting some from Blackpool Champ show. I was recommended to give them the Chicken & Rice but i notice that it says working dogs on the bag. Is this the right food for them or is there a normal version, they get a fair amount of exercise but they aren't working as such. I am very impressed so far as i have started weaning them onto it and there are no upset tummies at all. In fact their stools have improved after being on JWB.

The reason it says for working sogs is so that you don't pay Vat on it.  If it is for Pets then you pay VAT, but working dogs are exempt.

:D :D working sogs, sorry Brainless not laughing at you, just at the amusing typo.

I have used the AG Prestige Range on all my dogs and pups and have had brilliant results, they love the taste, their coats, muscle tone, teeth and bone are all really good.  I have told many of my friends about it and they now use it too.  It is very reasonably priced and AG provide a really good service, both on speed of delivery and dietry advice.

what age did you start to feed the prestige to the pups. did you find that you fed less than the recommended feeding amounts?

My Elkhounds never had more than 200g of it when they were young adults, and no more than 250 at the stage when they eat most (3 to 5 months), and these are 20kg adult bitches.

I started the babies off on Prestige which their lactating Dam has been eating since 6th week of pregnancy.

Once they were adult I put them on the Normal adult. 

As I now also feed meat (half Raw feed half complete) I use the Classic range instead, and use the Puppy, for Mum and pups, and then Junior once over 12 weeks, and then the Adult once adult, unless they are inclined to chubbiness, then I might put them on adult sooner.

Stacey,i would never feed a food that had "derivatives" in the ingredient list or anything else that sounds suspect and that you would question.

christine

Derivatives meaning derived from, surely everything we eat is derived from something what is the problem with that? Chicken derivatives probably means whole chickens, uncleaned gut, feathers, bones and all and for a dog that is just what it should be. We can't put our distaste of such things onto our dogs.

Good point, Jackie. After all, bread is made from flour, which is a derivative of wheat ...

Jeangenie,

No, it is not a good point.  It is missing the point entirely.  And I know that you and Jackie know better.  

A whole chicken is not going to be labeled as a derivative, it is way too expensive.  Derivatives are rubbish left by the food processing industry.  They are cheap and that's why some manufacturer's load their foods with them.  Now, my dog might like derivatives such as dried and overprocessed ground feather.  No doubt she'd scoff it down.  Manufacturers like it too.  It has a very high protein content -- great for boasting on the label about how much protein their food contains.  No matter that whatever usuable protein that's left is nearly impossible for a dog to assimilate. 

I am not a purist.  Derivatives do touch my dog's lips.  I buy little cat treats which are full of them and she gets a few as a reward for coming when called (they work wonders I find).  But I would never buy a food which is used for her main meals which contains derivatives.  If for no other reason than it's a sure sign the manfacturer is cutting corners in order to bump up the apparent nutritional value of the food.  I would rather not pay good money for rubbish. 

Stacey

So it is derived from a chicken either a whole one or part of one, to a dog there is not such thing a rubbish when it comes to eating a chicken or any other animal, it is only us who throw away so much that could be consumed and is by other less so called cultured peoples. Most chickens and if it comes to it other meat animals seem to come without any internal organs at all and if you want them they are handed you in a plastic bag or in the case of lambs liver out of a plastic bucket.

Jackie,

So from your point of view it is perfectly okay than to feed a dog a complete, commercial dog food which contains large quantities of derivatives, even though you have no idea if the derivative is 100% powdered chicken beaks and feathers, or, 100% chicken liver?  Your opinion is that a feather has the same nutritrional value as a chicken liver, or intestine or lamb heart? 

The buyer has *no idea* what the derivatives in pet foods are because labeling laws do not require them to be identified.  You imagine they are nutrious animal organs that many people would prefer not to eat (and it's purely a cultural thing, not universally true) .. but in fact what you are really getting could be feathers and fur.  If that's okay with you, obviously it's your choice. 

Stacey

Trouble is I have seen what happens to 'pet meat' being prepared for the raw trade and I would rather have the ground up what ever that will at least go through a high heat process than the sort of chemical treatment that some of the raw meat gets. Not suggesting that all raw pet meat goes through any process but some does and some of the minced raw is little different to that in the complete dry, both are derivatives in the case of chicken, neck, head,  bone, feather, internal organs, wing tips and skin. Not sure after the recent cases of 'pet food' being sold in supermarkets I am not too sure about that either. But I am happy to eat recovered meat myself and I think providing it is heat treated in some way I am happy for my dogs to too.

Having this afternoon removed (most of) a manky decomposing pigeon, complete with feathers, which was being crunched up with great enjoyment (feathers too) by one of the dogs, I can see little difference between those beaks, bones and feathers and the ones that are (possibly) in pet foods. They always say roughage is good for the bowel, and I would never consider feeding a diet that consisted entirely of chicken giblets. A blend of the whole chicken carcass; meat, skin, feathers, bones, beaks, innards, feet and all, would be ideal.
:)