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By Bec
![[gb]](/images/flags/gb.png "United Kingdom")
Date 27.01.02 20:09 UTC
Should there be an alternative registering body to the KC? The KC have had a monopoly on the world of dogs yet even though I am one that uses their services in respect of registration cannot really see the benefits of same other than to show? I mean I cant become a member, I have no say in how it is run, I cant use the facilities my payments contribute to to maintain, I can be banned from using its services for misdemeanours and I have to put up with being lumped in with puppy farmers and mass puppy producers who are also at liberty to use its services without, it would seem, suffering any such 'punishment' regardless as to the number of rules they break?
Isnt it about time us little people made a break for it?
By Polly ![[us]](/images/flags/us.png "United States")
Date 27.01.02 21:10 UTC
Actually, anyone with enough money can join the KC, it is very expensive. They like you to be an associate member for a while, and I did read that they are planning to "fast track" associates into becoming members within three years. You get very little for your money as an associate, you get a copy of the rule book, 12 Kennel gazettes, a season ticket to Crufts and a copy of the stud each year. All of which you can buy separately from the KC and it is cheaper than getting them as "freebees". On the membership joining form they ask you to put down what you think is your contribution to the world of pedigree dogs. They then publish your name and address in the KC Gazette and if no member objects, then you are accepted.
By Bec
Date 27.01.02 21:17 UTC
If you have enough money well that excludes most of us. I also thought full membership was limited to 750 people some club eh!
When I was showing Rabbits, it was the case that anyone who purchased ID rings for the bunnies (to enable them to be shown) had to be a member of the governing body, The British Rabbit Council.
I don't think everyone that registers litters should be a menber, as that would put power in the hands of the puppy farmers. there must be some way though that if someone has exhibited/worked for a certain length of time, or maybe qualified a dog for the Stud book and was a member of one of the Breed Clubs, or some other qualification that distinguished them from the puppy farmer.
We cvould all have a stake in governing our hobby. Even Building societies have to give you the right to vote and attend AGMs.
By Bec
Date 27.01.02 22:28 UTC
So in order to have a system that has some integrity it should attempt to exclude puppy farmers/mass producers from using its services?
By fleetgold
Date 27.01.02 23:31 UTC
There are already alternative registering bodies to the KC - there is the Dog Lovers Club and the UK Pedigree Dogs Registration Club Ltd and we all know why they were set up! No, I feel the answer is to try and reform the KC re registering puppies from Puppy farms etc rather than to have an alternate body.
Joan
Take the rough with the smooth
Agree totally!!! But I am roman Catholic, reform from within rather than branch off :D
By fleetgold
Date 27.01.02 23:46 UTC
That could be where I got the idea as well!
Joan
Take the rough with the smooth
By sierra
Date 28.01.02 08:13 UTC
Please educate me once again. I assumed, erroneously it seemed, that the KC was run very much like the American Kennel Club wherein they hold
quarterly delegate meetings where changes to rules, disciplinary matters, etc. are discussed and voted. These delegates come from every club that the AKC recognizes, one from each of the clubs authorized to hold dog shows and one from each of the national breed clubs (who handles the working aspects also). These people are elected from those belonging to the clubs. Therefore, like any elected official
should do, they speak for what the people they represent want.
I know that many times we have sent petitions from the dog show community through the elected officials to the American Kennel Club stating what we, the people supporting them, want in the form of new rules, opposition to proposed new rules, etc.
Does the KC not work in the same manner?
By fleetgold
Date 28.01.02 08:32 UTC
Those amazingly radical ideas would not go down well at the KC Sierra. Let the common people have their voice - whatever can you be thinking about? You are obviously one of these dangerous Bolshies...... :D
Seriously, I don't know much about the running of the KC but it certainly isn't democratic. There is the Breed Council which is made up with representatives of each breed but that I think is only an advisory committee although it does allow the breed clubs a small voice. I am on the committee of a pet obedience training club, as far as I know we have absolutely no direct voice to the KC. The KC does write to all registered clubs asking for their views on various issues, but isn't as far as I know, bound by the answers.
Joan
Take the rough with the smooth
By sierra
Date 28.01.02 12:05 UTC
Then that is a darn shame. How can they expect to serve their 'public' if they don't at least take what the people who pay their salaries want? Can you imagine any other major corporation existing in a totalitarian environment without taking the needs of the people it services into consideration? Just a thought, but when was the last time that any of the clubs and those of us who register, show, work our dogs made them aware of our feelings enmasse.
Joan, you should take a look at the link I provided and look at the minutes of the Delegates meetings. The minutes are open to all, as are the Board meetings, etc.
Guess I need to see how they hold meetings and whether or not they are open to the public.
In this particular instance, I would say that the American Kennel Club has it hands-down over the KC.
By Leigh
Date 28.01.02 08:47 UTC
The complete rules and regulations and constitution of the Kennel Club are available in the Kennel Club Year Book. Copies of which can be purchased direct from the
Kennel Club or from Championship Shows.
By sierra
Date 28.01.02 12:01 UTC
Thanks, Leigh, I'll certainly read mine before I chat with the good folks at the KC booth at Crufts. I know from experience though that many organizations have a stated method of procedure, yet few truly follow it. I was asking more for opinions on how it actually works rather than how it's supposed to work.
By Ingrid
Date 28.01.02 13:10 UTC
I'm totally in the dark here so please put me right if necessary.
You can't show a dog in the UK unless it's KC registered ?
You can't hold a dog show without Kennnel Club permission otherwise dogs taking part my be disqualified from showing in future?
Doesn't that mean the Kennel Club has a monopoly over the show world and therefore could be answerable to the Monopolies Commission?
Excuse me being thick on this but I only have one dog for which I hold the full papers and as I have no intentions of showing him I haven't yet bothered to change the registration with the KC is there any good reason why I should ?
As far as I can see being KC registered is no guarantee that a dog has no genetic disorder, does not come from a puppy farm or anything else so why does everyone hold them in such high esteem and say you should only buy registered pups.
By fleetgold
Date 28.01.02 13:42 UTC
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the ruling body which governs horse racing work in exactly the same way? I very much doubt if the Monopolies commission would be interested in this, after all they are not interested in the Football League (which controls all Football in England), the tennis ruling body or the Athletics Federation all of which controls competition within these sports.
No one could give a guarantee that dogs do not have a genetic disorder.
Joan
Take the rough with the smooth
By Leigh
Date 28.01.02 14:19 UTC
The Monopolies & Mergers Commission was replaced in 1999 by the
Competition Commission. I'm not sure but I think that the CC only get involved when the Office of Fair Trading (DoFT) ask them to investigate whether a complex monopoly exists in a particular sector?
What is a complex monopoly?
Under the Fair Trading Act 1973 a complex monopoly exists when individuals or companies, which together account for at least 25 per cent of the supply or acquisition of particular goods or services, follow a course of conduct, by agreement or not, that prevents, restricts or distorts competition. The CC are looking into
Prescription-Only Veterinary Medicine at the moment after the DoFT received complaints from farmers and pet owners over pricing. Lets hope they find in our favour! The prices we pay for such items as worm and flea control can be as much as three times what european's pay.
By sierra
Date 28.01.02 15:12 UTC
It's definitely more than I paid in the US. Amazing to think that a rabies vaccine that can be purchased for under $5.00 (£3-4) in the US, administered by a veterinarian for $20 (£15 or so) costs me a whole lot more than that here in the UK. On top of that I have to have rabies titer testing (unheard of in the US), making my pet passports somewhere around £160-200. Heck, my passport is less than that and good for 10 years.
Perhaps someone should put the question to the Office of Fair Trading about why the KC is permitted to do the things it does. Though legally, I would say that people have an option to buy unregistered dogs, to register them with one of the fluff-and-stuff 'registries', or to hold shows that are not KC-related; therefore, it is quite possible that it doesn't fit under the monopoly act legally, but it certainly does ethically.
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