After much research I decided to get Cam vaccinated for Parvo and Distemper (but not Lepto) when he was a pup. Now that his first year of cover is nearly over, I intend to have him titre tested to see whether he still has an acceptable level of immunity. My question is, of those of you who titre test, how likely do you think it is that Cam's immunity will be unacceptably low and he will need a booster?

I ask because the poor little dear has to go into kennels for four days in June so my window of opportunity for getting him sorted if he does need to be vaccinated a second time is very small.

Thanks

Jo

Hi Jo
If your putting you dog into kennels irrespective of anything else the kennels will insist on your dog having a full vaccination and it must be up to date that will include Parvo-distemper-hepititis and Leptospirosis.
These rules are the guidelines laid down as conditions of the licence by the local environmental health office and also most insurance companies also insist on it.
If the kennels don't ask to see proof of vacination then stay well clear.
Its not a question of the kennel owners personal choice, it is the rules they have to go by. Being titre tested will not be acceptable by the kennels.

Bazza ( Boarding Kennel Owner)

If I had to board my dog & didn`t want to vaccinate because their titre test shown them to have high immunity, I would look to a well respected h/pathic vet or the h/pathic vet association & ask them if they knew of any good kennels that didn`t require vacc cert or would take dogs issued with h/pathic cert. Liscensed or not :)
I would certainly be questioning the environmental health office as to why their guidlines have not kept up with recent?? scientific knowledge titre testing & the duration of vaccines.

Christine, Spain.

Hi people

I discussed the situation with the kennel (which is award winning and comes highly recommended - absolutely no concerns there) when I went to visit.  They indicated that they were happy to board Cam as long as I provided the relevant documentation plus a written letter from my vet.

Legally speaking, I'm unclear why a titre test would not be acceptable - presumably because the law hasn't kept pace with science. I'll look into it - thanks for the info.

Jo :)

So, I got my bitch titre tested, results were LOW, no immunity? oh no, the university said its just that the dogs immune system hasnt been challenged by one of the diseases it was vaccinated against.  So how do we know that the dog has sufficient immunity to mount a resonable response should it be in contact with a disease such as Parvo?  The answer is we don't!  and we sure as hell are not going to deliberatly going to put them in contact with infected animals to try out that theory.  All in all, I was told titre testing is useless!
Dawn.

I`m sure the people who had high titre readings didn`t think it useless :) But Dawn do you not believe the manu`s, they say parvo vax has a duration of so many yrs, can`t remember off hand, same for distemper, lepto doesn`t last a yr anyway & Shultz & others says lifetime? Titre testing can`t record the memory cells that play imprtant role in immunity. You have to make a decision as to who/what you believe in regards vaccination & the immune system. :)

Christine, Spain.

You said it EXACTLY Christine, titre testing CANNOT record memory cells and they are paramount in immunity, so what good is it, if a dog with a low score, that hasn't been in contact with disease, is just as likely to mount a response than a high scoring dog that has recently been challenged with a disease? 

One other thing, should people opt for testing, how often are we supposed to blood test our dogs to see if these results are still there?  3 months, 6 months? every year?  Having been down this road, I am very disheartened to discover such an unstable testing system that doesn't give an answer ANY pet owner can be sure is correct.  Furthermore, there is nowhere that states just how long vaccines work, so should we go for testing then our dogs could be subjected to repeated blood tests every couple of months, which costs approx £45.00 a time, and for what?
Dawn.

Dawn, thats what I`ve been trying to tell people ;) It`s not unstable, for certain thngs it can be invaluable, but the immune system is a very complex thing & science just doesn`t know everything about it so titres are limited as to what they can show. Schultz syas parvo & distemper has duration of 7yrs, probable lifetime I think, the manus themselves say 3yrs!! You will find they do state how long immunity is for & you can read their findings on some of the links I`ve put up before. Once you have immunity it`s lifelong. Titres are suggested every yr or so, not every few mths, but again, it`s down to what you believe &/or what you read & then make your choices :)

Christine, Spain.

<<Once you have immunity it's lifelong>>

What a shame it isn't the same for people. :(

Isn`t measles lifetime once you`ve had it or vaxed?

Christine, Spain.

My grandmother caught measles 6 times! ;) I've had mumps twice, and an acquaintance contracted polio from his young baby after she had her immunisation drops - his own childhood immunity had faded ...

But humans don`t get boosterd for life tho do they J/G? :)
The vaccines obviously failed with you, your gran & friend, but would the answer be just because they don`t work all the time to vaccinate everybody once a year for life? I don`t think so, but thats what happens with dogs.

Christine, Spain.

My point was that immunity isn't necessarily life-long! ;) It wasn't that the vaccines failed with my grandmother and myself - this was in the days before vaccination against those diseases - this was so-called 'natural' immunity.

I could also turn your point on its head, and say that, just because the boostering fails with some dogs, that's no reason to not go on boostering ... ;)

I still get myself boostered every 10 years (because I don't work in a high-risk industry - otherwise it would be every 2) every 10 years against tetanus. Children are indeed given boosters after their first course of immunisations: there's the initial baby course, the pre-school boosters, and the boosters at 14.

J/G you can turn the point any way you like, it`s not my point at all, it`s the opinion of the vet`s I`ve previously mentioned ;) :D And the point they have made from their findings after scientific studies is once you are immune to something giving more boosters does not & cannot make you any more immune & it more than likely lasts a lifetime. I just happen to believe them :) Besides being told personally by very well known expert vet that my own dogs will have lifetime immunity to parvo after having it as pups & will not require further boosters for it.

Christine, Spain.

" Besides being told personally by very well known expert vet that my own dogs will have lifetime immunity to parvo after having it as pups & will not require further boosters for it."
Christine, that's what I was told by the folks in Glasgow doing the clinical trial for a vaccine, but I was also told not to tell my Vet what they'd said!!  In all walks of life communities close ranks if their livelihood is attacked!;)  Maybe we are just the lucky ones to have had different experiences?

Hi Val :) yes they do close ramks mores the pity! But at least now some are opening up & coming out with it, but 1 other well known vet not from Glasgow didn`t want to be named, she was a lot of help to me & explained lots of things. It`s funny cos they put me in touch with different vets, all in the same circle so to speak *who might be able to help* so they all must know the same thing ;)
Still, we can just keep on saying what we`ve been told & pointing others to any scientific research that comes out :)

Christine, Spain.

Is there a list of vets who agree with the titre testing ? my dogs only a pup at the mo. but my cats will be due their boosters soon I and want to have them titre tested, I just have a feeling my vet is going to laugh in my face :(

Hi Blondebird.
If your Vet laughs, walk away and find one that won't!  EVERY vet can do the test, its a simple blood test, whether they agree or not, they shouldn't refuse.
Dawn.

Has anyone heard that Intervet now do a 3-yearly vaccine, instead of yearly?  (it's on their website intervet.co.uk).  Only thing is, my vet doesn't stock Intervet vaccines, he only uses Duramune now, though perhaps I could ask him to order it.
  Hilda

Thanks Christine.  It was you that started me thinking about this after I had my bitch tested, you mentioned that low levels do not mean no immunity, that in fact gave me some reassurance.  However, it still doesnt answer peoples questions, and I would imagine that Vets and pet owners would be more likely to side with the people that produce these vaccines that those that don't.
Dawn.

Intervet, that's interesting!  That's the company who's Veterinary Rep I referred to at the siminar here!!
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=363713#pid363713
Nobivac Parvo C is the vaccine I used to use and the clinical trial that I was involved with!!

Tried to edit the spelling and failed!!
Should also add that was MANY years ago - maybe 8 or 9, the years fly by as you get older!!

the issue regarding whether we should be vaccinating our dogs yearly or not - is it to do with it just being a waste of time and money or is it because people believe it does harm ?

sarah
x

It`s unecessary, causes untold harm to the dogs immune system triggering auto immune diseases, allergies/etc so therefore a waste of money L/lauru. Maybe you should do a search on here & have a read on some of the links I`ve put up in the past.

Christine, Spain.

We have no idea whether our two have any decent levels of immunity to the vaccinations they have received (both had puppy course and first booster 1 year on). Also, we don't really know whether their immune responses are getting much in the way of a challenge from local disease conditions. We have considered having their antibody levels tested before the next boosters are due (our vets still recommend annuals, and tend to go on 'automatic pilot' in the face of argument, lol), and if the circulating antibodies are low, to go ahead with the boosters, and then re-test. But then it occurred to me, either they have a good immune response, or they don't, and if they don't, after the vaccinations they've already had, then what on earth would be the point in loading them up with more? Have to persuade vet that I'm not some tight-fisted ignoramus and see if he's willing to discuss.