Can I give my dog her immunization shot when she is in heat, or early in the pregnancy?  I am planning to mate her next week, but I'm thinking I might need to hold off as she went into heat early and didn't have her shots yet.
Thanks!

If she's already in season & she is being mated this time ~ I'd leave her until she's off the litter & get her done a couple of weeks after all the pups have gone, this will give her hormones chance to settle down.

Hi

I have over the years given bitches who are in heat their vaccinations knowing that they are due to be mated.  My reasoning is that a) the pups don't attach to their mother (and therefore rely on her blood supply) until 18 - 21 days after conception and b) low maternal immunity has been implicated in fading puppy syndrome.  Therefore I like my bitches to have a good immunity to the common canine diseases and I don't worry that anything will cross over to the pups because they don't attach for around 3 weeks so any "harmful" substance will not go directly to them.

Hope that helps.

Chris

*Therefore I like my bitches to have a good immunity to the common canine diseases and I don't worry that anything will cross over to the pups because they don't attach for around 3 weeks so any "harmful" substance will not go directly to them.

Chris could you explain how exactly your theory works. Where does anything *harmful* go after 3 wks, how has the body got rid of it & how do you know for sure it`s been gotten rid of?? Are you aware that once a body is immune to anything, it`s impossible to give any further immunity by more vaccines? I`d like to see any references you could show me to give any credence to your theory.

Giving vaccines/boosters is NOT adviceable to in heat or whelp bitches at all, there is no scientific evidence to support this theory & all what is now known about immunity says not to do it.

Christine, Spain.

Christine, I was replying to the question of whether a booster should be given to an in season bitch, I made no comment about the timing of the booster i.e. annual, 2 yearly, or now 3 yearly (as advocated by some vets and Nobivac).  I'm fully aware that there is a lot of controversy over vaccinations, the ingredients in them, allergic reactions, immune system problems etc. etc.  However I for one am still in favour of some form of vaccination and accordingly if a in season bitch needs to be vaccinated then it's preferable (in my opinion and that of my vet) that she is vaccinated at the start of her season and not after mating or during the pregnancy.

You will also note I enclosed the word harmful in inverted commas.  I don't think there is anything harmful to as yet unconceived pups in vaccines, however I think most people worry about giving any medicines/substances (including vaccinations) to a potentially pregnant animal and I wanted to make it clear that the pups do not rely on their mother for some time after conception, this is quite unlike the human pregnancy where any form of medicine/vaccination etc. can cross the placenta to the unborn baby fairly soon after conception with potentially harmful effects.

As to immunity, yes I agree that in theory once immunity is achieved then it should be life long, however at this stage immunity to lepto. does not seem to be life long and therefore regular vaccinations against this are appropriate (in my opinion and the opinion of the majority of dog owners and vets).  Once again no mention of which product was going to be used for the vaccination of the in season bitch, but even if it was my answer would still have been the same.

I would also like to point out that this answer was not the start of a debate on the pro's and con's of whether vaccinations for the common canine diseases is appropriate just a simple answer to whether a vaccination should be given to an in season bitch.  I have been breeding for a good number of years and during this time I have vaccinated in season bitches with no detrimental effect to either the bitch or her potential puppies.  My answer was given in the context of my personal experience, which I'm quite at liberty to offer.

I'm aware from your other posts that you are anti immunisation (correct me if I'm wrong), you are entitled to your opinions and I respect them.  However, the question was when to vaccinate and not is vaccination appropriate (as opposed to non vaccination, one vaccination (as a puppy) or the homeopathic options that some dog owners are now using).

I understand your point Chris, but I just wouldn't take the risk of giving anything to a bitch prior to mating. If the bitch in question is vaccinated every 12 months & happens to come in season just as her booster is due, then if she was left till the pups had gone, she'd only be about 17 weeks late having it.

Personally I wouldn't use anything, including antibiotics, flea treatment, x-rays to diagnose pregnancy or routine immunisation on any bitch in my care  :)

Hi Christine

I can see where you are coming from and as I say that's fine by me!  My main concern is for the puppies, I'm not trying to put the pups over the bitch or visa versa, however my big worry is for the health of the pups when they are born.  Obviously given the choice I would plan my vaccinations around seasons etc. but if they need to be done and I feel the bitch may not be immune and therefore pass this onto her unborn pups via the placenta and her milk then I would rather vaccinate at the start of the season.  I'm sure the bitch wouldn't suffer by waiting 17 weeks to receive any essential vaccinations but I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to have a questionable immunity at a time when the pups need to inherit some protection from their mother.  I do know from several items of information that puppies titre tested from mothers with poor immunity (mothers also titre tested) are left with little or no protection and I guess weighing up the balance of probabilities that both my vet and myself feel that vaccination at the start of the season is the better option for us.  As I said in my earlier mail this is just personal experience, we have had no problems so far, I can't say if we will encounter problems in the future (I hope we don't and obviously a re-think would be necessary).

Obviously individual circumstances will vary enormously.  We live in the country with lots of wildlife and the risk of lepto. etc. is high here.  We also have several dogs who get out and about and whilst the bitch herself is exercised only at home from mating and until the pups leave home the other dogs could potentially expose her pups to infectious diseases despite careful adherence to hygiene and for this reason I would prefer to have a bitch up-to-date with her immunisations (as appropriate) than take the chance of her puppies not receiving sufficient protection from her.

I agree with you that as little intervention as possible with a pregnant bitch is the best course of action but this is one area that I'm not confident enough to chance to good fortune or luck.  I think when you have experienced Fading Puppy Syndrome first hand (my pups had pm's, and nothing was found to be wrong apart from the bloods which showed a high number of white blood cells indicating infection, despite very strict hygiene standards in the whelping box etc.) it makes you ultra careful about these things. 

Just wanted to point out Chris that the previous post was from me & not Christine.
smudgley. -

Quote -- "I think when you have experienced Fading Puppy Syndrome first hand" (my pups had pm's, and nothing was found to be wrong apart from the bloods which showed a high number of white blood cells indicating infection, despite very strict hygiene standards in the whelping box etc.) "

regarding the PM done on your pups, unfortunately most neonates that die in the nest & are sent for PM -the results will come back inconclusive and fading puppy syndrome is often a term used for an inconlusive post mortem.

Hi Smudgley

I'm aware that most pm's done on neonates are inconclusive, however my pups had a very high white blood cell count which is a sign of infection so in the case of my pm's pups I don't think it was true to say the findings were inconclusive.  I believe the "catch all" of fading pups was a correct diagnosis for them.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.  Hope you have a wonderful litter in 9/10 weeks time!

Best wishes, Chris

Chris, my answer was to the question *Can I give my dog her immunization shot when she is in heat, or early in the pregnancy?* Also the poster states she intends to mate her bitch next week. My answer is still no. That is based on what the experts say :) Vaccines can & do shed, viruses especially parvo, live a long time, therefore if it`s shed from the bitch after she`s been vaccinated it will be around long enough to pose a danger to the pups. That is just one reason for not recommending vaccinating an in heat/whelp bitch. Other very important reasons are to do with immune system. Jean Dodds, a reknowned expert in the field of immunolgy explains very well in the link below why it shouldn`t be done :)
Regards Lepto, have a look at the letter Nick Thompson has written, it`s on the other recent thread here about vaccines.
Whether I`m anti or pro vaccination doesn`t matter, my answer is based on what expert vet immunoligists/viroligists have published in repected vet medical journals, not theory :)
No where did I say you weren`t at liberty to voice your opinion, your very welcome too, as we all are :) but then we`re all entitled to question other posters theories as well ;) :)

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ImmuneSystem.htm

Christine, Spain.