Hi again,

Raising a puppy...it seems like you take one step forward and then take two steps back! Just when you think you're finally making progress with one thing, something else comes up and you feel all frustrated again. I was so happy that we finally seemed to be making progress with Honey's lunging and walking problems...then in the last week, she has had 2 accidents in the house (wee not poo) - after she has been perfectly housetrained for 4 months. I just don't understand it! She is also going on the concrete path in the backyard, rather than on the lawn (both wees and poos) - again, I don't understand why she seems to be suddenly regressing. We have had a lot of bad weather in Auckland these last couple of weeks and so it has been very wet out, especially on the grass, and Great Danes being the wimps that they are, I can see why she would want to go on the concrete, which is closer to her sheltered area, then go out on the grass and stay out for longer in the rain. But still -!!

Anyway, I am trying to give her "refresher course" and now rather than waiting for her to ask to go out, I take her out periodically and stay with her and direct her onto the grass, to make sure that she doesn't go on the concrete (and also not in the house!) - I thought perhaps if I just do this for a few days (weeks!), it might put her back on track? Does anyone have any other suggestions?
(She is not crate-trained. During the day when I'm at work, she has access to the back garden and also her bed, which is in the laundry shed next to the concrete area of the garden. )

Thanks,
Hsin-Yi

Isn't it strange that this behaviour starts as you start using a choke chain????????..........

Mmm I was thinking it might be anxiety :(

First of all.....relax. Dogs often DO regress as they're learning and maturing. It's a natural curve. Everyone learns that way. Think back to when you were in school. Did you make a steady, even progression in all things? Or did you sometimes do well in a subject and then maybe have a bad week or two? Or you did fine in something one semester and not the next?

Large breeds take longer to mature. My Dobe took the longest time to house break...much longer than any dog I ever had. I think it was 7 or 8 months of age when he finally stopped having that occasional accident. I thought too, that he had it figured out as there were hardly ever any accidents and he'd have several weeks or a month and then whamo, an accident because I didn't take him out or he forgot he could stand by the door. Sometimes they don't know how to tell you they need to go out.  All my pups have shown to some degree or with some behavior one step forward and two back. I'd think they were trustworthy on something, housebreaking included and then I'd get a suprise. With Jose, it was chewing. He'd stop chewing my good stuff for long time and I'd trust him to leave alone in the house. Then one time he'd get into mischief. They finally level off.

I think you're doing fine to take the dog out often and show her where you want her to go and then praise. Do that for a few more weeks. I know it's a hassle, but it should help. Clean up your carpet with an enzematic cleaner.

I would also take her to the vets and have her checked for a urinary tract infection just in case. This can cause this type of thing to happen.

Forget about the cause being the choke chain. Many dogs are trained with choke chains and don't think they're in a torture chamber. They turn out just fine. I used them on many of my dogs. For heaven's sake! You already explained that you know how to use one, that it was shown to you,  so don't let this undermine you confidence and new found relief at being able to walk your dog. You're making such good progress with the walks. You're going to have the best dog because you're diligent and you're getting help in your class and you've got it together.

1 step forward then 2 back? That sounds about right to me :) its a roller coaster thing bringing up pups if you havent done it before, so dont get frustrated just chill, smile and clean up. Biological washing powder does the job. One of Manic Morse's most endearing traits is his ability to surprise us with another kind of mayhem and he's 20 months old :D Hes just ensuring my grey cells keep firing, bless him. :D

I've been thinking about this....how dogs learn. I'm not sure, but expect that they learn like we do in a way. At first, they're taking in a lot of things and looking at the wide picture. As they gain experience, they start breaking things down into more detail, noticing more detail. This makes things look different, as they're viewed from a different angle. So their learning of the same thing is broken into stages, each stage looks a little different. That's why it can throw them off a little while they're adjusting their sites. That's why it is quite typical to see a dog doing great but then they may have a little lapse. They've gotten it down pat...the portion of the thing they've understood. Now they're seeing it in a slightly different way as they move from one stage to the next, which is foreign to them. Does that make any sense or am I talking in word salad?

Well, an analogy: My piano playing: When I start to learn a new piece, I run through the sheet music. I don't start by getting every note in every cord perfect. I go through and play the cords I can see at a glance, get in the melody line and a few extra notes that I can see easily. I get the feel of the piece. As I practice and get more familiar with the piece, I can add in a few more cords and "inbetween" notes.
Then when I think I have the gist, but am still missing a ton of notes that are there, I'll slow down and really read and look more closely at each cord and note, rhythm, pause if I have to to read all the notes in a large cord. Each time I change stages, it looks a little different. When I go in for the kill and try to tackle the details,  I stumble more than before when I didn't have to worry about hitting every note. Then with a little more practice I'm doing the whole piece pretty smoothly. It levels off. Then onto another piece. It starts all over.

I'm not saying that dogs have that complicated a thought process at all, nowhere near that intricate. No, I'm saying that in proportion to their intelligence, they may be doing something somewhat similar.

So, our puppies have a lot of different things to learn and each thing is probably broken down so if we can reward them for small steps and not rush into the next phase, it helps them. And we can keep it in mind that when they lapse, they may be processing information from another angle. I don't believe that it's all that likely that stress or choke collars cause these regressions, unless the owner is being rough, cruel and causing anxiety or unless something else is causing anxiety. From reading all your posts, I totally did not see that. You're careful and caring of your dog it sounds like to me.

Carrie

Can't remember how old she is - any chance she's approaching her season? Dobby was absolutely rock solid before and after her first season, but completely lost the house training plot immediately before and during. Anyone else had this with bitches?

My girl was okay during and after her first season - but I do remember that at around 8 months of age she suddenly decided that it was best to poo outside but pee inside.  I guess training is an ongoing thing and you can never stop reinforcing good behaviour!  Of course, post whelp she had a few accidents but I forgave her for that :)

Thanks, guys, for your comments. I'm not too worried - I know training is an ongoing process and that - like children - puppies often regress. And I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with the choke chain. Aside from the fact that she is perfectly happy on it and after just 2 weeks using it, she is now walkign like an angel by my side with a slack leash and so I hardly ever have to click the chain anymore - there is a much better reason for her not going on the grass...RAIN!! Great Danes are notoriously wimpy when it comes to bad weather and she hates it when it's wet and stormy. Even now, when I'm taking her out and standing with her periodically, she will walk as far as the edge of the sheltered area, stick her nose out in the rain, take a sniff, give me a look, and then turn around and try to head back to the warm and cosy living room. Or she'll stick her bottom down and refuse to budge! After a lot of pushing and pulling and coaxing, I'll finally manage to get her out in the rain and onto the grass - where she'll sniff around half-heartedly and keep trying to get under a tree or near the fence, thinking there will be shelter. Finally, she'll squat and go - and it's Niagara Falls 'coz she's been holding it so long! - and then she'll rush back to the door to be let back indoors with an expression of relief on her face! :) Today, it was pouring with rain when I got home but I didn't want any more accidents so I put on my raincoat and took her (well dragged and pushed her) onto the grass - and ended up standing for 1/2 hr with her in the pouring rain before she would perform!! But it was a battle worth winning as after that, whenever I took her out and gave her the command, she did it quickly and then came back in. It was as if she was trying to see if she could get away with stubbornly refusing to go - and when that didn't work, she decided that the quicker she performed, the sooner she'd be back in the dry and warm!
Anyway, we haven't had any accidents since and I'm keeping up my regime of taking her out regularly when I get home. The weather isn't helping though! It's been pouring for days now - and winter hasn't even arrived in Auckland yet! I keep tellign my husband that at this rate, by the time spring comes, I'll have to do housetraining all over again!

Hsin-Yi
ps. she has been spayed so she can't be coming into season! She also doesn't show any signs of UTI - no frequent urination or anything like that. It's just as normal - except that she doesn't want to go out in the wet!

Ha ha...Dobermans are also notorious for that thinking that they might melt away if they get wet. Lyric didn't like to get wet at first, but we took walks in the rain with the other dogs and he had a fun time. Now he goes out and lingers, trots around and doesn't mind anymore. Well....sounds like things are coming right along for you.

Carrie

:D :D :D Get her wellington boots Hsinyi. Glad things are working out for you.