So, last night we went to the behaviorist.  My dog was set up with 3 kids.  He acted differently than I have ever seen him, he wouldn't look toward the kids, had his ears and tail down, really seemed down.  He also didn't want to eat treats, but he would eat them in the trainers office.  He was fine in the office, but out on the floor, where we worked, he acted, as the trainer put it "very introverted."

Well, she suggested he might need drugs to help him relax.  The thing is, when he sees a kid in 'real life,' his normal reaction is to get very alert, his ears up, his hackles (sometimes) up, and then he growls.  I am wondering, if I put him on amitriptaline, what it would do to this reaction???

Anyway ... I now need to find some situations where I can bring him, where he can see kids, without any danger of them actually coming toward  him.  She said that if in 1 year, he lets them pat his head, it would be great progress.  I am going to try this, without any drugs, for a week and see if there is any progress.  I also have access to the trainer through email and cell, so I can reach her at anytime.

So, I am wondering if anyone has used a drug like this to help their dog relax?  Is it a good idea?  Or, would it be better to do it naturally, even if it takes him longer?  I am a little afraid of drugging him.

Thanks.

Has it occurred to you that your dog is under a great deal of stress and may be better off in a home where he is not exposed to children; can you live with the tension that this risk poses and more importantly can you risk your children or anyone elses?

My 3 year old springer is nervous around children, she is never off lead if there are children about where we walk her.
We saw David Appleby with her, although alot better I will never trust her.
Her problem stems from someone hitting her at our gate when she was 9 months old, she has been nervous ever since.We dont know who it was we just heard her yelp.
This has upset us as we did all the proper socialising with her and she was great until this happened.
Sandie.

Thank you Sandie, I think my dog might have experienced something similar.  Although I got him at 10 weeks old, he did have previous experience with children.  Apparently, before I got him, children volunteered to walk him.  I think they may have scared him somehow, without meaning too.

I agree, mine will never be off leash either.  It's too bad, because he is so good!  But ... he is always with me, always on leash, when we're out.

Well, I have gone back and forth about this and finally decided to see a trainer.  There are no kids in my home, and I could avoid kids for the rest of his life.  But, I hate to think of him being in fear of children.  It's also very hard if I have to leave him behind, my mind is on him almost 100% when I leave him with a friend (and there is only 1, maybe 2 people that I feel comfortable leaving him with).

My biggest fear is - what if he gets loose?  This is highly unlikely, but of course, could happen.  Anyway, I don't think there is any situation that I could put him in where he would be happy and also never ever come across the possibility of never seeing a child again.

Phobias, fears etc are only a problem if they incapacitate you; for example if you are phobic about cars you need treatment otherwise you would never go out as the place is awash with them; if, on the other hand you have a phobia about tigers you don't need "treatment" you just need to avoid going to places where they are likely to be eg India, Siberia, zoos and circuses :D

It is not necessary for your dog to like or even to tolerate children, what IS necessary is that your dog is under total control at all times and is never put in a position where he could pose a risk.

I know what I would do if your dog were mine, I would ditch the "behaviourist" and just make sure that neither my dog, nor I, nor children were not put under unecessary stress.

Well ... I have thought about that too.  In fact, that is what I was doing - just avoiding children - before I went to see her.  But, I don't know ... I keep going back and forth on whether this is the best idea. ...

I suppose if it comes to drugging him, maybe it is better just to avoid them.  Somehow, I just can't see that this (drugs) is a good idea.  Even people who have anxiety problems often need to try more than one drug before they find one that works.

I agree about the control issue though.  This is another thing the behaviorist has started me working on.  Maybe you're right though, maybe I just need to control and avoid ...

Behaviourists are there to tell you how to manage a problem, or retrain it; either way the aim is to "destress" the dog. If the behaviourist has said to you that maybe in a year the dog would tolerate a child patting him this indicates to me that you are going to be increasing the stress to this dog for an unacceptable amount of time for an unacceptable reason. 

As I said before, it is not important for your dog that it likes children; you may not be thrilled with this but sometimes we all have to accept what is as opposed to the alternative which in this case I believe is a no brainer!  Child acceptance is not an important enough reason to increase the stress in your dog's life IMHO!

I'd agree with tohme on this one. Whilst I'm sure with loads of effort you could improve the situation, one experience with the 'wrong child' is likely to set you right back again (& possibly worse if you have been lulled into a false sense of security!)

As long as you can ensure your dog doesnt pose a threat to anyone by careful control and management, then i should leave alone. However, if you think that you cant be sure that he is not posing a potential threat I would look at relocating him somewhere he cant do any damage.

Hi Growlybear (love the name!)

Just wanted to add a word of caution about Amitriptyline use.  I have never used it on my dogs, but I have been prescribed it for my migraines, and was on it for about 6 months.  If it works the same on dogs, then I would have to say that some of the side effects can be as bad as the original problem.  It can make you pretty 'spacey' and unaware of your surroundings (possibly changing your dogs character!) OR in some cases (mine!) it can make you very restless/nervous, so you can see that this may not be condusive for your situation.  A dog that is in an uncomfortable situation, such as around kids, AND thats feeling 'spaced' out and generally not in control, could end up being a very BAD thing.
Please don't think I'm putting a downer on this, or on using drugs for certain problems, I'm sure that it has worked for many people/animals, but if you decide to go down this route, please do all the reading up and research before hand. (I'm sure you would anyway!!)This type of drug, 'old' type tricyclic antidepressants can take a few weeks to get into the system and therefore a few weeks to clear completely as well, trust me, I know :) (having a speeded up heart rate for 10 days is no fun!).
Good luck in whatever you decide to do, it would be great to sort the problem out, but its not always possible, some dogs won't ever be comfortable around children, maybe the thing to do is not to put him in that position.

Good luck, hope it all works out in the end.

Ali :)

i was prescribed it when i was depressed,had to come off it as on it i couldnt even get out of bed half the time & cant remeber great big chunks of days when i wason it! id never recommend it to anyone let alone a dog!

Thanks everyone!

Thanks, I kind of agree about simply not putting him in a position to be around kids.  I am thinking also of taking him to some specialized classes (agility or obedience trials or something) to build his confidence.  He always has loved classes, he has been through to advanced obedience.  Maybe with some classes he will be more confident and therefore more relaxed.

I only want him to be ok with children, because it seems that even with precaution, there could be an incident where a child comes out of nowhere and comes close before I see them.  Maybe I am just paranoid.  Anyway, I am considering the excercises the behaviorist recommended, but I am not convinced yet that I am comfortable doing them.

Thank you for the insight on the drug.  I know that with people, they sometimes have to go through numerous drugs before they find one that works for them.  I used to work in pharmacy, and I know how the 'wrong' drug can make someone feel.  Since he is a dog, my boy wouldn't be able to tell me if he felt funny... so, I agree, no drugs.

Thanks  ~~~ there is a lot to think about!

Why not use a muzzle when you walk him, you would relax and may be the dog would too.

Hi Jackie, well I actually do use a muzzle if we're going to be in a place where I can't watch 100%.  I don't know, maybe it isn't important for him to be ok with kids.  I have thought this at times, and then I hear  success stories about behaviorists, etc. 

I know that fear is a hard thing to break though, and that I could never actually trust him around kids anyway.  What if I had him watch kids at a distance, with the muzzle on???  The behaviorist seems to think he needs treats during the session though, but he has never really been super motivated anyway ...

Hiya

What is his 'thing'?

If its not treats, what about a toy, like a ragger or a ball or something?

You could try (if you can be CERTAIN taht no child will approach, or that he will get off his lead) taking him at some distance from children, and playing a game with him.... make it a specially fun game, adn only play when he is NOT showing any signs of stress.

Gradually work the distance closer and closer, just to one child, then two, etc, and at any time if he shows some stress, back off and start again from further away.

This may be impractical if you have no spare children to help you out!

Em

Just gotta ask they give this too dogs?

My hubby was prescribed this for his FM = Fibromyalgea (sp), its a form of anastetic (sp) to help you sleep. Didn't know they give this to dogs to

if it is used to help people sleep, then how could they administer it for depression.  the last thing a depressed person needs is something to make him/her more sleepy, groggy, cloudy, etc.....
it sounds like i would want to stay away from this drug.  it seems to get offered to all kinds of animals for all too many reasons.  yuck!

Hi Mental cat

I have also been prescribed this drug as a pain killer and threw it away after 4 or 5 days.  Like you I found there were side effects and for me they were intolerable.  I couldn't sleep at night and felt like my skin was crawling and 'on edge'.  Far from relaxing me I lost sleep, was restless and  permenantly on edge and preferred the occasional pain I suffered than the continuous side effects of the drug.

Growly bear, there may be other drugs your vet could prescribe - Megastrol or similar?

Failing that, like tohme says, for the occasional encounter you might have with children, the treatment might be too intense.

elija,

It is also used as a depressant too, as far as I have found it is used for many things. I know one side effect my hubby has is sensitivity to the sun and florescent lights. With FM he aches all over, skin you name it sometimes hard to even move :( This helps him to sleep at night he cannot take it through the day at all so no help there. It also depends how many mils you are on, sometimes the dose could be to little or to high, just depends on the indivual....

I have exactly the same situation with my 2yr old lurcherx who will bark lunge and chase a child if it is running. So I have to be extremely careful moreso if he is on his lead. He is worse around our home as he sees this as his territory. The funny thing is that if out over local fields and he meets a younster out with their dogs he does not react at all. I have never been able towork this out. He does not like children running making noises or playing football. As I have never owned such a dog before my others all loved children I am at a complete loss as to what to do. I also worry incessantly about what would happen if he got out on his own. He has never bitten but has chased barking and will stop if the child stops, same with joggers cyclists. My worry is with toddlers so I make sure he is never allowed off lead around them. I am going to invest in a basket muzzle for this summer.