Hi John, or anyone in general,

We were talking about some different training tasks and things we do with our dogs. This is just sort of a continuation.

Yes, I taught my Dobe to sit/wait until I put the food bowl down, pause a few seconds and say, "OK" which means he can go have it. I taught him this because I hate it when dogs have lousy manners and shove their way into the bowl when you're not ready yet and it's dominant behavior which needs to be kept in check with a Doberman or any dog actually, but they can be very, very pushy. I taught him by saying sit/wait and  setting it down and as he pushed forward, I'd pick it up. This was when he was very young and the sit/wait wasn't very good. So, I'd remind him, sit/wait and then again set the bowl down. Each time he came forward, I'd pick it up rather than physically hold him back. After one session of about 6 times doing that, he figured he better sit and wait. This may sound like teasing a dog, but it doesn't take very long, usually one feeding time, maybe one more for reminding.... but I think if the dog can problem solve or figure out some things on its own without using compulsion, like saying, "NO!...... sit, wait," or physically holding him back, it makes them learn HOW to learn better. I did the same thing with going through a door. He needs to sit and wait while I open the door instead of barging through it and knocking me down. Instead of physically holding him back to wait, I'd just close the door in his face until he figured out that he needs to sit and wait until I release him or he isn't going to get to go through the door.  I have noticed this kind of learning is further reaching than the one learned task in and of itself, especially with my Dobe who needs to learn in this way much of the time. Now, when I am done mixing all his goodies into his food and pick up the bowl to walk across the kitchen, he is so cute...backs up about 4 feet away and sits very deliberately, (like, "see? I can sit." so proud of himself) and perks up his ears. I don't even have to tell him to sit and stay. He looks at the bowl, then at me waiting for me to say, "OK" which I do without further adieu. (ha ha )

Yes, I agree that it's mean to tease a dog with food. I've hated that when people do that since I was a kid. It's just plain mean. They'd hold something up for the dog and not let them have it. Ticked me off big time!

Yeah....John, we seem to do lot of things similarily. I agree that the dog should learn to give up things out of his mouth. My dogs know "drop it" and "leave it" but Doberboy is still working on bringing me things. He's a lousy retriever. We'll have to really work on that.

Every couple of days my dogs teeth get brushed with doggie toothpaste. And I've just started this recently. So, Doberboy pup is the best about it. The others still turn their head from side to side, but they're getting better. This guy knows to stand and stay when I brush him, change his ear posts, clean his ears, retape, dremel his nails, (all the dogs get their nails dremeled) and the vet just showed me how to empty his anal glands which I did myself. They got too full. Gross!!! Does that sound like fun or what??? LOL And he is such a good, patient fellow, my Lyric. I'm so proud of him so far...a really sweet dog.

An electric collar may not cause pain persay, but I would think it is quite psychologically jolting. (no pun intended) I've been zapped a hundred times by the electric fence I had for my horses and it just gave me the heebie jeebies, not terrific pain. And I'm sure that was way, way more voltage. So, I don't know.....I would think with some help, most dogs can be trained.

Anyhow, thanks Sally. Yes, I just generally try and habituate puppies while they're still very young as well as horses when I trained to lots of different situations, people, things done to them (sacking out) etc. I don't want to torment an animal or expect every instinct to completely disappear, rather in many cases use their instincts to both or our advantage. Again, I'm no expert to be sure, but I have had and worked with dogs and other animals for a long time. (I'm old. LOL) And I've read a lot....obsessively before I got each purebred dog. And with this Doberman, not being absolutely sure if I could handle him well, I read like 6 or more hours a day for a year before I got him....about training, operant conditioning, scientifics of animal behavior, Dobermans, health, breeders, you name it. I was like some lunatic in front of my computer or books, really bordering on obsessive compulsive behavior. LOL. I'm glad I did though. This Doberman is like the Arabian horse of the dog world. He's spirited, intelligent, goofy and playful, affectionate and loving, sensative and perky as can be. He even moves his feet like an Arabian horse when he does an extended trot....long, springy pasterns. It's really something!

Oh well...enough rambling...sorry.

Carrie

A little physics for you Carrie. Ohms law:- Amps*volts=watts. It's the amps that kill you not the volts! I remember taking hold of two contacts carrying 415 volts at 6am one morning. It burnt my hand but apart from that I walked away from it. Had the wattage been the same but the voltage 240volts I doubt I'd be here.

We use electric fences around the release pens to keep Foxes at bay. Believe me, no matter what people say, If a Fox got into a release pen there would not be many Pheasants left! On a number of times I've seen a dog not aware of the fence touch it and believe my, they scream! I'm glad to say that my Anna is normally very good at stays and has never (so far) touched one. Of course I normally turn the fence off before I go into the pens so she is safe while I'm inside.

So much of early training can be done at feeding time. I would usually have a sit on command by the second day and a recall and sit stay before the first week is out. All of this without the puppy even aware of training. The more training you can fit into normal everyday activities the better because as they are not regimented and even in the dogs eyes, have a purpose the better. The person doomed to failure is the person who sets an hour aside every day to "Train" but then never uses the training in normal life.

Best wishes, John

Thanks John. I am totally uninformed about electricity. I know that with the electric fence though, the charger had a reducer and it pulsated off and on, off and on. If it didn't pulse and was steady, it would be curtains for anyone who touched it. My Lab ran under it once or twice and got zapped and yelped all the way across the pasture. I'm quite sure, from having touched it myself, that it was frightening to her more than painful. The horses touched it so many times by mistake that all they did was pull their head back quickly but got over it immediately.

Yes, I agree totally with incorporating training into regular daily life. It's so much more applicable. Like when I, for instance empty my diswasher, I'll ask for a sit/stay. Or during a commercial while watching TV, a long down. If I was going down the hall to put my laundry from my washer into my dryer I'd have my puppy heel and at the end of the hall, sit/stay. You can throw in little mini lessons all throughout the day rather than just going outside for a 15 minute lesson, although I like to do that too, especially when it's something that needs more space. It's fun when I'm cooking something to have all four dogs, who are generally in the way, to sit or down and stay for a while. Then they get a little treat.

I have yet to get Lyric good at this but when I have guests for dinner or if I'm sitting at the table, which I hardly ever do, my Lab and Chihuahuas have to lie down at least 8 feet away from the table and stay put throughout the meal. They know that when I'm cleaning up the dishes they'll get some special people morsels of meat or veggies. So, they're very good at that.

Yeah.....if you only train at specified times and in certain places, I agree...they won't apply it to everyday life or a variety of situations as well.

Carrie

Lyric sounds fun, Carrie :) Im old too and love the new lease of fun and nonsense Morse and I have together. Vividly remember spark day when the lights went on " Oh I have a command for this!" instead of rushing to close the gate I just said quietly Stay :) Tonight we had a great walk playing hide n seek and though we caused several eyebrows to rise, Morses recall has hit a great high without him knowing it, and hes learning to find people or things in lots of diffferent cover for a laugh and a bit liver. In and out the trees is a good heelwork thing too. :D

Now how do I wean him off rabbits? Maybe I need to run faster in zig zags :D

What kind of dog is Morse Lorelei? It sounds like you have lots of fun and what a great way to work the recall. I try to play hide and seek in the house, but Lyric runs too fast and he usually follows me before I can get into my hiding place. LOL. Yes, these pups keep us on our toes don't they! Little rascals! What is spark day? I love the differences between the English customs or traditions and the American stuff. It's really fun and interesting when I hear of these things and I really get a giagantic kick out of your expressions. I'm going to try and remember some of them so I can use them here....maybe start a new trend. LOL. Absolutely love 'em!

Carrie

Hi Carrie, Morse is a PointerX Greyhound and spark day is when the lights go on in your head and theory becomes practice :D its something we say in my house.