I currently feed my Rottie James Wellbeloved Lamb and Rice.  Although impressed with the food we are finding it expensive to feed at £32.00 for 15kg sack.

I am wanting to change to another brand that is easier on the pocket, but don't want to compromise my dogs health to do so.  What do you guys think of this analysis please?  This is a food I am thinking of perhaps using and would be grateful for any input.

Ingredients Rice(min 26%), maize, poultry meat meal (min 14%), real chicken meat (min 14%), Norwegian herring meal (min 4%), poultry fat, sugar beet (min 4%), yeast (min 2%), dried whole egg (min 2%), dicalcium phosphate, extract of yucca. Contains natural anti-oxidants. FREE FROM ARTIFICIAL COLOURS AND PRESERVATIVES. CONTAINS NO WHEAT GLUTEN. Vitamins and minerals guaranteed until best before date.

Nutritional Analysis Protein 26%, Oil 15%, Fibre 3%, Ash 8%, Vitamin A 16,500 Iu/kg, Vitamin D3 2,500 Iu/kg, Vitamin E (alpha Tocopherol Acetate) 150 Mg/kg, Copper (as Cupric Sulphate) 20 Mg/kg

Any suggestions for other foods to try would be gratefully appreciated, thank you.

I wanted to change Mr B off of JWB because they carry out animal testing.

As you can see the main ingredient in this food is rice (presumably the name of this diet is Rice and chicken) :D followed by maize (corn).  We have then got poultry meat meal (what exactly is this?), "real" chicken meat (as opposed to artificial?) :D, herring meal (again what exactly is this), poultry fat (where is this from) sugar beet (I have never understood why anyone would want to feed sugar beet, the only use it has is for bulking up stools!, yeast, (again why would I want to feed yeast?), Dicalcium phosphate is generally produced from cows.

26% protein is basically meaningless as we are not aware what percentage is cereal based and what is animal based therefore we cannot see how much is "complete" protein and how much is "incomplete".  We are also in the dark as to how "bio-available" some of this protein is. 

Vitamin E as presented in this form is not as easily available to the body as the natural d-alpha-tocopherol. When vitamin E is supplied this way the body has to first remove the acetate part of the molecule and this is carried out by the enzymes of the digestive system. Only when the tocopherol is released by this enzyme action can it be absorbed into blood stream.

I have seen worse :D

Not sure if Burns or Naturediet would work out cheaper or more expensive than JWB, no doubt others can comment.

HTH

Thanks very much tohme.

I admit to not knowing a great deal about these things.  I think I will pass on this one as I don't think you would actually recommend it!  The fact that you have seen worse doesn't make me want to buy it :)  I appreciate you helping me.

Burns is the same price, cannot find price of Naturediet anywhere.  Have a feeling pricewise it will be about the same.

What do you feed yours on?  Ideally I would like to be paying £25 or less for 15Kg, this will suit our budget a bit better.

Not really fair to take my view on commercial food particularly as I do not feed commercial dog food :D  I feed raw but I appreciate that is not for everyone. 

I don't happen to think that the example you have shown is particularly ghastly as it happens but I admit to being biased against convenience foods :).

I think naturediet is around 55p per 400gms or so but there are loads of people on here who feed it and can tell you approximate amounts etc.  I think it is the nearest you can get to home made or raw myself and would be the one I reached for if I found myself without access to raw nosh for some inconceivable reason :D

Cheers for that - thanks for your help.

Nice to be on a forum where people are quick to be helpful and give advice so readily.  Makes you feel welcome!:)

Hi there i used to feed wellbeloved to all mine and still feed it to those with sensitive tummies and O.A.Ps i find it good,i get mine cheaper than yours there is a loyalty schem available and at moment their is offer of  20kgs for the price of 15kgs making it a little better.The rest of my mob are fed on Royal Canin which i truthfully find to be the best for my bunch and as im feedin Tibetan Mastiff  shar-pei G.S.D and boxer on it the all seem to be thriving and i get mine at breeder price buy 4 bags get 5th free which takes it down to atround your budgeted price
                          Cheers Wes

I find it interesting that the Royal Canin site does not reveal what the ingredients are in its food, only the analysis; or am I looking in the wrong place?

The main ingredients are there if you click on the relevant bag.

Medium Adult

MAIN INGREDIENTS:

Chicken, beef, egg: from sources of very high quality animal proteins.

Fish oil as a source of Omega 3 essential fatty acids for their anti-inflammatory action on the intestine.
Trace elements for better absorption.
Natural yeast extracts (M.O.S.) for stimulating immunity defences.
Essential vitamins (A, D3, E, B ...)

I feed Royal Canin and find it very good, my dally tends to get skin problems with any food that is high in additives and he is fine on this.

Sandra

Hmmm but not the total ingredients; I wonder why? and what does "main" mean? :)

I know I have read the total ingredients on the bag and nothing jumped out as being nasty.

Do we put this much effort into feeding ourselves I wonder :) I know I don't.

But Sandrah, we have a choice what we feed ourselves, dogs don't!
I feed Arden Grange to my Sheps and Autarky to my other 2, they seem to be the best of the commercial foods.

I truely think you just have to find what you can afford and what works best for you....Yes my dogs may do great on this food (Nutro) but yours may not....People can give you all different kinds to try because theirs do excellent on it but it all comes down to the indivual dog, every dog is different just like our opinions on foods will be different.

Good luck and hope you find one that works for you and your dogs :) I'm sure you will, just do alot of comparing ingredients. I would take ingredients written down or printed and spent hours on the net and in petstores comparing them and price this is how I came up with Nutro and have been on it for a year -My dogs not me :D

Good luck :)

What makes Mali fan come to the conclusion they are the best commercial foods ?Best for you isnrt always best for me ,the food is only good if the dogs we care so  much about thrive on it so ,as the saying Goes "Horses for courses" i dont truly believe any one food can be determined as best,i have fed Arden grange in the past now admittedly quite some time ago and found my pei to have  more coat condition problems now admittedly it could have nothing to do with the feed ,but did improve when i changed brands,So i truly feel it is a matter of finding whats best for your and your dogs needs
                                        Regards wes

wat are you talking about thats confusing your ment to GIVE help not confuse them
(sigh)

Hiya
Burns works out at 30p per 100g (a cup full). This is the recommended amount for each meal fed for dogs between 20-30kg. ie, my basset weighs 23kgs and therefore it costs me 60p for her 2 meals a day.
(Used to pay £1.79 for each tin if Hills...and swopped to Burns after appreciating its actual contents)
HTH
Jo
:)

I moved on to a combination of JWB and raw feeding.  I switched the kibble part of their meal to the JWB because it had no corn (maize) wheat or gluten and because it did have kelp and alfalfa.  The girls love it and do very well on it.

I would stay away from any product that has corn or wheat (gluten) in it as the corn is just a filler and the gluten can be really bad/allergenic to your dog.

Wendy

What about Nutro they are pretty good and not a bad price for a 40 pound bag. The ingredients I find to be good too :)

Good luck in your food hunt, hope you find one that is easier on the pocket book. Thats one reason why I switched to this food. :)

Nutro lamb and rice for puppies
Dried Lamb Meat (min 27%)
Ground Rice (min 26%)
Rice Bran
Rice Gluten
Rice Flour
Beet Pulp
- Poultry Fat (min 8.0%)
- Sunflower Oil (min 2.5%)
- Potassium Chloride
- Dried Kelp
- Dried Egg Product

Large breed puppy
Dried Chicken Meat
- Ground Rice
- Corn Gluten
- Wheat Flour
- Rice Bran
- Poultry Fat (min 7.0%)
- Beet Pulp
- Sunflower Oil (min 2.0%)
- Dried Lamb Meat
- Potassium Chloride
- Dried Egg Product
- Dried Kelp

Large breed adult
Dried Chicken Meat
- Ground Rice
- Corn Gluten
- Rice Bran
- Wheat Flour
- Poultry Fat (min 7%)
- Beet Pulp
- Sunflower Oil (min 2.0%)
- Potassium Chloride
- Dried Egg Product
- Dried Kelp

Adult maintenance
Dried Chicken Meat (min 26%)
- Ground Rice (min 17%)
- Wheat Flour
- Corn Gluten
- Ground Whole Wheat
- Poultry Fat (min 10%)
- Beet Pulp
- Dried Lamb Meat
- Potassium Chloride
- Calcium Carbonate
- Monosodium Phosphate
- Dried Yeast
- Dried Egg Product
- Dried Kelp
- Garlic
- Dried Buttermilk

Lamb and rice adult
Dried Lamb Meat (min 26%)
- Ground Rice (min 26%)
- Rice Bran
- Rice Flour
- Sunflower Oil (min 6.5%)
- Rice Gluten
- Dried Egg Product
- Monosodium Phosphate
- Dried Kelp

Chicken and rice adult
Dried Chicken Meat (min 26%)
- Ground Rice (min 26%)
- Rice Bran
- Rice Flour
- Corn Gluten
- Poultry Fat (min 8%)
- Beet Pulp
- Sunflower Oil (min 2.5%)
- Oatmeal
- Potassium Chloride
- Dried Egg Product
- Dried Kelp

Adult performance
Dried Chicken Meat
- Ground Rice
- Corn Gluten
- Poultry Fat (min 16.0%)
- Rice Bran
- Rice Flour
- Beet Pulp
- Sunflower Oil (min 1%)
- Dried Lamb Meat
- Dried Egg Product
- Monosodium Phosphate
- Dried Kelp
- Garlic

As you can see from these differing diets that although the biggest single ingredient is lamb, when all the other cereals are added together (a common device known as "splitting" in the trade) then the cereals far outweigh the meat. For example in the first formula the rice content has been "split" into ground rice, rice bran, rice flour, rice gluten.  Other formulae include wheat and corn gluten, SBP, oatmeal and again includes yeast (which can be a problem for some dogs) and buttermilk (which again can be a problem for dogs who are lactose intolerant).

HTH

JWB

Lamb and Rice
Adult Maintenance
INGREDIENTS: Rice, lamb meat meal, ground whole barley, fresh lamb, lamb fat, whole linseed, lamb gravy, sugar beet pulp, alfalfa, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, D,L-methionine, lysine hydrochloride, threonine, zinc methionate.
Puppy/Performance
INGREDIENTS: Rice, lamb meat meal, ground whole barley, potato protein, fresh lamb, lamb fat, whole linseed, lamb gravy, sugar beet pulp, alfalfa, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, D,L-methionine, lysine hydrochloride, threonine, zinc methionate.
Junior/Performance
INGREDIENTS: Rice, lamb meat meal, ground whole barley, potato protein, fresh lamb, lamb fat, whole linseed, lamb gravy, sugar beet pulp, alfalfa, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, D,L-methionine, lysine hydrochloride, threonine, zinc methionate.
Turkey
Adult Maintenance
INGREDIENTS: Rice, turkey meat meal, oats, turkey gravy, whole linseed, sugar beet pulp, turkey fat, alfalfa, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, D,L-methionine, lysine hydrochloride, threonine, zinc methionate.
Puppy/Performance
INGREDIENTS: Rice, turkey meat meal, oats, potato protein, turkey gravy, whole linseed, turkey fat, alfalfa, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, D,L-methionine, lysine hydrochloride, threonine, zinc methionate.
Junior/Performance
INGREDIENTS: Rice, turkey meat meal, oats, potato protein, turkey gravy, whole linseed, turkey fat, alfalfa, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, D,L-methionine, lysine hydrochloride, threonine, zinc methionate.

Duck
Adult
INGREDIENTS:  Rice, Duck meat meal, organic oats, duck gravy, whole linseed, duck fat, alfalfa, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, D,L-methione, lysine hydrochloride, threonine, zinc methionate.
Puppy/Performance
INGREDIENTS:  Rice, duck meat meal, organic oats, duck fat, whole linseed, duck gravy, alfalfa, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, D,L-methione, lysine hydrochloride, threonine, zinc methionate.
Junior/Performance
INGREDIENTS:  Rice, duck meat meal, organic oats, duck gravy, whole linseed, duck fat, alfalfa, natural seaweed, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, D,L-methione, lysine hydrochloride, threonine, zinc methionate.

However JWB does contain, as seen above, linseed, barley, SBP.  Gluten is not restricted to wheat but is contained in ALL cereals.  Also it is wise to differentiate between alfalfa in the form that is fed to herbivores and added as fibre to food and the alfalfa which is ground down to a powder and used as a supplement.  All cereals are used the same way whether it be maize, oats, wheat, barley, millet etc; as a cheap form of incomplete protein. Hence all the amino acids that have to be added (methione, lysine, threonine etc etc)

Hi,

Rice is a cereal and is totally Gluten free, however gluten is found in other cereals like you say.(Mother has coeliac disease luckily for her loves rice)

Briony:-)

I guess that where rice gluten is included in the ingredients this must be a mistake then.

Rice itself is gluten free, but enriched rice is rice that is often sprayed with a vitamin coating that could contain barley, barley contains gluten.  However I think that the term Rice Gluten as used in the pet food industry refers to something else.

Briony,

Rice does contain gluten, but it rarely causes problems, whereas wheat gluten is a common allergen.

Stacey

Wow, you guys certainly seem to know your stuff!:D

I couldn't find a price for Nutro anywhere so don't know how much value for money it would be.  Anyone know the cost at all?

Here in Canada I pay about $34-$40 for a 40 pound bag Nutro and I feed 5 dogs on it.

To find a perfect dogfood kibble good luck, they all have things in. I have done alot of reading on ingredients and this has been the best I can find for my pocket book. It has No BHT,BHA, ETHOXYQUIN which is a big thing for me. I know plenty of people that feed this to their dogs and they are doing great on it. Not all dogfood will work the same for everydog. Since mine are alergic to chicken its way to rich I had to find something that worked for all of them. I have tried many, I use to feed Eukanuba/Iams which they did great on but didn't like everything I heard about them not to mention how much I paid for their food.

I don't look at what all goes into my food as much as I do for my dogs and well this food is good enough for my crew. Tohome you don't feed kibble do you? Don't take this the wrong (sorry if I read it the wrong way :)) way but I would see for you that no kibble would be good enough. But for people that do they have to try and find the best for what they can afford at least it isn't Alpo or dogchow it is much better then that crap.

Nutro

:D

I am at present feeding my dogs on Dr Johns Chicken and Rice. Although it is cheap, that is because it has no vat, my dogs are doing brilliantly on it with a bit of mince put on top for smell. Their coats are very shiny and they are full of energy. I changed to this food becasue they very kindly sent me a sack of it to try and have stuck with it now for at least a year. :)

My vote is with Autarky.  I pay £11.50 for a 15kg sack.  I've stuck with it for two years now and my dogs look fab!

Autarky gets my vote too...my 2 boys look great on it,its not expensive,is 100% natural and the boys reckon it tastes good.
Archer

Never heard of this Autarky

More details please......

Di and the labs

www.autarky-foods.com
I feed Nutro at the moment £30 per 15kg bag, Autarky is about £15 per 15kg bag.

I am very happy with Nutro and so are my dogs but I am looking to change to Autarky, the price difference is obviously attractive. The leaflet on Autarky I picked up today claims 100%natural, high dried chicken content, 15 beneficial herbs which aid digestion,  wheat gluten free, no artificial colours, flavours or preservatives. It is also non GM. Sounds good.

I've never heard of Autarky food before but have just had a look on the website and found a local stockist so might give it a whirl.  It's very reasonable compared to some of the other natural foods.  Currently, I feed my girls on Winalot, Bakers or Pedigree - I know a lot of CD's won't touch these but am thinking of changing food because one of my beagles has had a skin irritation for a few weeks now.  I never realised how many additives some of the supermarket foods had in them.

ADMIN DELETED

I feed raw and have done for many years but I also feed a natural mixer and recently Natural Choice holistic meal. A friend did tell me about Autarky but when I looked at the ingredients and all the herbs etc that went into it I couldnt understand why it was so cheap!  My friend has since changed back to her original feeding since she said she was picking too much off the floor afterwards.  Tohme I think it is good that you know what goes into a commercial food I wish I had the time to look into it so good on you and keep us up to date as I don't wish to feed my dogs the scrapings of the floor which goes into a commercial food and which is called 'protein' and/or 'derivatives'

In the last month have switched both my dogs from Nutro to Autarky and both are doing great even if it is only a short period of time.  Autarky half the price of nutro, I pay £14.00 per 15kg.  But have read on here of someone who pays £9.99 per 15kg from Bookers - but our Bookers don't stock it.

I changed my girls to Autarky a couple of weeks ago, and there's an amazing difference in coat texture - Daisy's coat always felt coarse before (on JW) but is now really soft.  Trouble is, Kerry doesn't really like it, and leaves half her food.

Does anyone know of anywhere that will deliver Autarky?  The only place near me sells it for £15.50 a sack, which seems a lot compared with everyone else.  Thanks.

Before our local pet stop started selling Autarky, I ordered two bags from csjk9.com - they were £12 each, but then the delivery was £6, so it still worked out at £30, so you'd be no better off really.
  Hilda

I feed raw, because I just can't see how feeding a dried kibble that swells up inside the stomach of the animal is any good. 

I understand that not everyone wants to feed raw, but price wise it is very economical - I just hate the fact that so many of these food companies have really conned the consumer into paying extortionate amounts for terrible quality food.  When will people learn just because they say on the packet with added herbs- doesn't make it any better, they are just dollying up an otherwise pretty rubbish product.  The amount of herbs in foods is absolutely minimal, poor quality and not enough really to do much good.

I don't analyse everything I eat myself however I know eating fresh good quality food is the best for my health - along with a good variety of different foods - common sense therefore also tells me this is best for my dog.  You can't IMHO do better than feeding fresh.

I think in a perfect world we would all feed raw if we could.  Unfortunately, to me at least, it appears to be very complicated to get the right balance.  I also have a BC who is allergic to so much.  He is fed Burns and naturdiet and is doing the best he has ever done.  We go camping alot so feeding raw wouldnt be practical either. I work full time so time is a factor as well (and before anyone comments the dogs come with me!).

Also the price to feed raw some people just cannot afford it, me being one of them....I wish I could but right now I don't have the deepfeeze or the money to do that. Having a hubby, children, 5 dogs, 2 ferrets well money is a huge factor in people's lives. Also kibble is much more convienent and cheaper to feed when you are a working family trying to pay bills and live. I love my animals very much and they too are doing fine on the kibble my old boy is 10 and a half and I was told Im lucky if he lives past 8, he's still going a little slower but still enjoying life :)

Feeding raw or homecooked works out cheaper than a "premium" quality kibble,the only way it would work out more expensive than kibble is if the owner was feeding a bottom of the barrel commercial food.
As for feeding raw being confusing,it couldnt be simpler,the key to homemade food is variety,if you feed a little of everything you cant go wrong.

christine

I think the best thing is to agree to disagree.  I do like the theory of feeding raw but I do know there are a lot of people who do not believe it is the best thing.  There are arguments about what the balance is and how to achieve that.  My dogs are on what I believe to be the best for them.  As has been said various times in this forum what might be good for one might not necessarily be good for the next.  As I have said before feeding raw just doesnt work for me.  One of the boys is allergic to so much and to try and find raw food that he could eat and get the balance right and put him through the days of chronic trots until I get the balance right is something that I am just not prepared to do.

I was told to feed my crew of 5 and 2 ferrets Im looking to pay more then $300 and kibble only costs me about $80 a month and about $30 every 3 months or so for the ferrets. I talked to a lady down here (vet) that is really into raw feeding and this is what I was told. I gave the breed/weight of all my dogs. If I only had maybe 1-2 dogs I probably would give it ago. The food Iam feeding right now I find to be the best for my dogs, they are all good weight my boston's and no more dry flakey skin which Iam pleased with. The fur on Junior's tail seems to be coming back some what...

Yes I agree a topic we will have to agree to disagree :)

Dollface,i think your vet is pulling your leg,i would like to know her motives for trying to steer you so far off course
Doesnt common sense tell you that there is no way so many pet owners,breeders and so on could feed raw if it cost that much?
Raw may cost you half of your figure if you feed purely organic and the best of the best cuts of meat,but there is no way it would cost $300!

christine

I would pay less then $80 a month if I fed Raw? This vet feeds her dogs raw and she loves it (they are premaid packages of raw food, maybe thats why it would of cost so much), not my vet. I have a dog that weighs 158-162 pounds, and the other 3 weight around 22-28 pounds...Either way I won't be doing it cause I barely have time to cook for my family and the kibble right now is more convenient...But when life slows down I am thinking about going raw, have been doing alot of reading, copying stuff off the net, writing down links ect, planning on buying books. This way when Iam ready to do it I'll have most of the info I need, and well reading all these posts help as well. :)

Dollface
I work full time and have a hubby and 4 children. I also have 4 dogs( 20-25Kg) and feed raw.The food is delivered to my door in a minced form and I just defrost and feed....adding a little easy green in as a suppliment.The dogs adore the 'meat and veg'(chicken carcass,tripe,heart and veggies) frozen that I have delivered(also have chicken,beef,lamb etc) and all meat is from slaughter to frozen within 24 hours so don't feel I'm cutting corners by using frozen.
I purchase £60 worth = approx 216 lb and that lasts me about 10 weeks....so thats about £25 a month.
Archer 

I am in total agreement with you dvnbiker!  Does a food work for you and your dog?  My girlie does very well on JWB and she will stay on it - if it aint broke and all that :D  At the end of the day the feed manufacturers are selling to the owners anyway - ok some are rubbish but I avoid cheap brands with sugars and artificial colours etc etc.....My pooch would be happy eating poo (from various species,) tennis ball fluff, plastic and her own sick...So it's hardly surprising she does well on JWB :D
Sarah

Well said Sarah.  My dogs look great on what I feed them.  It is premium food and they love it.  What more can I ask.  They do get some veg i.e when we have a roast etc but thats probably it.  Oh they like the odd carrot as well.  But then again as you said they would be happy going out and eating the tennis ball etc etc etc

try bakers complete,bakers complete light,chappie wet food or drie if you can it
it might not be as good but it's food isn't it
                                                       glad to help hilarybrenn