What do other posters think qualifies a dog to be called a working dog? A friend has just said to me, that her dog is show bred and so even though he works well, has a "shooting dog certificate grade A" and a field trial award, she would not consider calling him a working dog or advertising any of his progeny as such. It seems to me that if the breeds are dual purpose as they are supposed to be then what she has said is nonsense! Would this also mean that a dog bred by a "pet owner" which wins at Crufts for example is not a "show dog"? Therefore it's progeny cannot be sold as from show winning lines?

Hi Polly - If I was looking for a puppy, I would be looking at its pedigree for working lines as that is the type of puppy I would want. I would also be looking most importantly at temperament. I think it is very hard to define. If my 'working line' puppy turned out to be best of breed at Crufts, I think I'd still think of it as working and not show stock. Having said all that, my dogs are my companions and pets first and foremost, and if they ever win me a field trial or working test award that will be a big bonus. :) :)
Lorna

there is in most cases a divide between the working lab and the show lab, its not to say a show one wont work or the other way around but-if the show one works and has done well in the feild thats a bonus, the rest of the litter might not be that way inclined ,as for the workers they look for a certain thing in there labs,theyre usually a touch racier than the show ones and not as heavy,,when a buyer wants a certain lab-say a show one ,it needs to conform to a certain idea of there type of lab, if it had working ones in its pedigree then it could take a touch of the type theyre looking for away, same the other way around, if someone is to buy a working lab,and its got show lines in it, then it could take after a relative that had no inclination to work at all,although most show labs will retrieve etc ,they dont all have the push and the stamina needed for a hard days shoot or beating day-therefore the show buyers usually want pure show as they do better in the showring and the workers from a long line of proven working stock as they do better in the feild, of course theres exceptions ,but that is probably why your freind wont advertise her show dog as a working dog,-hope this helps not sure if its come across as clear as i would of liked,

In my breed virtually all the hounds you see in the ring also compete at working trials. There are also quite a few at trials that never get shown, mainly because they are a bit plain & not up to the standard, but its wonderful to know we have dual ch's in our breed & that EVERY hound in the ring is capable of working..........even if the owner chooses not to encourage it!

I was not thinking of a specific breed, although my breed is flatcoats. I have found that it is quite usual in flatcoats for the dogs on the bench, (many with Sh. Ch titles), to also work throughout the season. Brenda Phillips - Exclyst or Peggy Millers - Emanon or perhaps Jo Hewisons - Casbliadd are fairly typical examples. My own dogs work on various shoots, and as youngsters they won at championship level. I am not ambitious enough to field trial and once they start their working career my dogs are never shown again. So does this make my dogs "pet dogs"?
I had this argument with some field triallers some time ago. They were at a meeting and were not prepared to listen to anyone else's opinion. They kept shouting at the tops of their voices that they wanted breeders to breed for smaller, faster dogs capable of winning a trial. I on the other hand know from experience that the ordinary shooting person is more interested in having a dog which will work and is biddable. Now as I pointed out to these triallers, my dogs work, and if George the game keeper comes and says, "I want you to pick up on the Box" I know he means sending my dogs through a very thick box plantation, which is on a ridge. There is a 20 yard open space at the edge of the box plantation, and at the end of it a 25 foot drop onto hard ground. The triallers told me they would not be able to stop their dogs in 20 yards if it was onto a runner, so would refuse to work the Box plantation. My slower, biddable, bred for working and not for trials dogs will stop and I can easily stop them, long before they reach the edge, which by the way is unfenced. Surely a working dog is one that can be used in any place on a shoot, as required by the keeper or shoot captain?
This is why I asked the question, if a dog is working bred, show bred, (or half and half as most of mine are), and they are biddable, and work well, why should I not say they are working dogs? My friends dog, (half working and half show breeding lines), has a field trial award, which I suspect will be the first of many, it also has a shooting dog certificate grade A, so is it not a working dog?
Before I forget, congratulations to Jo on gaining yet another SDC!

Polly, to me it doesn't matter if your dog is show or work bred. If it does what it was bred to do, then it is entitled to be called a working dog whether it is used for the shoot and/or competition.

There are some very good shoot dogs out there, that will never be trialed for all manner of reasons (eg: politics), but it is automatically 'assumed' that if your dog isn't trialed, it must be substandard in some way :rolleyes:

If your dog is also shown,then what you have is a dual purpose dog.

In my book something to be proud of, not hidden :-)

Leigh

Congratulations Jo :-)

Totally agree Leigh, but I find the attitudes towards working/field trial dogs divisive as if the work show divide is not enough to contend with. So I just posted out of interest as to why this line of thought should prevail. I hoped we might get a friendly debate going which might make all of us think about why we choose the dogs we do and for purpose we intend to use them. It has been interesting so far, since Dudley posted that they choose working lines to hopefully guarantee a good working dog, and I do admit I always choose a dog based on how much it is worked, (I usually ask the owner if they would like to bring it to my shoot, so I can see for myself), I hope to gain a field trial line or two and an SDC holder or two. If it has show lines as well I consider this advantage as hopefully my dogs will look pretty too! :-) I am really genuinely interested in other members thoughts on this, maybe I will learn something I did not know before.

It certainly is not divisive in my breed