I've always walked my dog Holly (BC X) with a choke chain collar (on the paths) because it's trained her to heel and not pull and found no problem with it. Yesterday, I was walking her across a park and there were some kids playing with a ball which landed near her so she barked (in excitement) and lunged for it but the collar *corrected* her and she sat. She coughed abit afterwards and I felt guilty because I wasn't expecting a sudden lunge like that. Next thing I know, this lady comes up to me and starts having a go for having a 'vicious' dog at the park with young children and then 'cruelly choking' it to death to make it behave! Then she very RUDELY storms off, grabs her 2 kids and leaves!

She obviously didn't know what she was on about because my dog wasn't vicious and I wouldn't hurt her but I'm starting to wonder if that cough/choking sound has done any damage, it only lasted for about 30 seconds but she's never done it before and i'm worried I might have damaged a muscle in her neck or wind pipe or something!

Has this ever happened to anyone else and do you think I should carry on using the choke chain or not?

Thanks

Yes they have been known to cause damage.  I'm sure your dog would thank you if you did decide to stop using it. ;)

Yes choke chains are cruel,there are many more "humane" collars out there that dont damage their throats or windpipes,such as halti's or harnesses.When i was looking around for obedience schools i came accross one that expected all of their owners to use choke chains on their dogs,including pups,which is a massive no-no!Needless to say i did not train my dogs there,all the other obedience schools let you use any collar you like,they say choke chains are arkaic and unnecassary,which i 100% agree with.
Why do you NEED to use a choker on your dog?? Please do your baby a favour and toss it in the bin and buy something that doesnt hurt him.

Christine

They have been know to cause damage but I am sure in your case the problem was only very mild. If you want to stick with a normal type collar the why not try a half check, they can't tighten on the dogs neck enough to cause damage. But if pulling is your main problem then a haulti may be a better bet.

couple of my dogs are walked on checks.  They are known to cause problems, but only when not used correctly.  If she had lunged hard on any other collar she would have coughed!

If the check is working then carry on using it!

Rox

I don't beleive that chokers are "cruel" if used correctly. 
But should never be left on dog or tie a dog up with a checker on.

My freind's Dobermann bitch had cervical spondylopathy, damaged vertabrae in the neck, and was pts in agony.  It was attributed to 'correct' use of the check chain.

Sounds more like 'incorrect' usage of the check chain to me :)

Nope it was from the correct use

We'll differ on that then :)

If you run a search on this subject 'Louisexx' you will find many past threads on this highly contentious subject. Like any 'tool' it has it's uses when applied correctly. If you do not know how to use it correctly, then try and find someone to show you how or stop using it completely.

I know how to use it correctly, put it on the 'P' way not the '9'! And I haven't had any problems with it before, I thought they were nicer for the dog because most of the time its loose around her neck, its only when she lunges it isn't. I only use it occaisionally for walking on paths, but I live next to a big field so she's off the lead most walks.

I think that there have to be better ways than using this type of device. i'm sure there are plenty of dogs out there on these chains who never have problems, but i read only just the other day the damage they can do to the windpipe and ligaments in the throat - and that was talking about plain collars too!
maybe you should try a harness - i think halti make a special non pulling harness - at least this way you arent harming her vital organs.:)

Harnesses arn't all goody either.  They can cause damage to the shouldes and elbows! 

The thing is, whatever you use, damage will be caused in one way or the other!

Rox

i dont think they are bad if used correctly,but so many people have them the wrong width & size. them,but do not , i much prefer the feel i get off of a flat collar for training & a headcollar for road work,the best one ive found is the gentle controller,which is very kind.

training has really moved on nowdays from slipchains,& can really wreak the coat.

if your dog is correctly trained to one,& its the correct size he should never pull as the "clink " of the chain should be enough to remind him,BUT there has had to have been some training(??) for the dog to respond!
ive seen dogs half strangled by them,not nice. alot of people have seen dogs abused in this way & thats why theres the anti feeling against them.

When I first got into dogs I trained with check chains and they worked very well if used 'correctly'.  I do remember having a problem though in competition.  We had smashing heelwork on the lead but always lost more marks during heel free. 

Nowadays I train using rewards and because I don't use leash corrections at all, ever, I have as much control off lead as I do on.  My young dog is doing some pretty neat heelwork off lead and I'm sure when I start to do it on lead it will be just as good.

It may not be a bad idea to try to work out why your girl lunges :) For example, could you anticipate her lunges and distract her with her own toy, or get her to sit? Something like that?

Or would you consider a halti or similar?

Good luck anyway

Lindsay

I have always used check chains and find they work very well. I suppose because I was training my dog at a training school about 20 years ago that was all the rage then and I have stuck to it. We were always told it is called a check chain when used properly, it only becomes a choke chain when put on the wrong way. The thing is when you buy a halti or something similar it comes with instructions, check chains dont so people buy them and dont know how to use them. I think they are better in a dog that pulls than an ordinary collar as the pressure is constant from ordinary collar and have seen dogs walking where they are being constantly strangled and coughing and choking all the time. With a check chain used correctly, ok when you check it pulls on the neck and throat but if used properly will only have to be done a couple of times before the dog gets the message and then they are walking nicely and the chain is loose so no more pressure.

She very rarely lunges, I think it was just a reflex - the ball landed more or less at her feet so I don't blame her!
I think I'm gonna change to a normal collar cause she's fine at heeling so doesn't need a halti, that's the main reason why I used the check collar - cause its lose around her neck so she doesn't feel any pressure. I would never use a check chain on a pulling dog :)

Use a half check, that is loose around the neck and has the advantage over a normal collar of being impossible to back out of if it is fitted properly nor can it be over tightened if the dog pulls or lunges.

If you dog lunged suddenly and you had her on a short lead she would have choked in any kind of collar.  And a dog that pulls when on a lead will also do the same, regardless of the type of collar.  However, if your dog is well trained there is no reason to use a choke chain.  A properly fitting soft collar of leather or soft nylon would be just as comfortable as a loose check chain. 

Ignore the woman who thought your dog was viscious.  She probably would have said the same of your dog with any type of collar.  My dog loves everyone and wants to meet everyone personally.  This can be a real pain, as even if she spots someone or another dog in the distance the only thing she can do is focus on them.  She much prefers a complete stranger to either me or my husband. :-)  I keep her close to me on the lead when someone walks by us and she sometimes snarl and growl.  It's not at the people, it's out of sheer frustration that she's not allowed to run up to them.   I keep telling myself I should train her not to do it - but as yet I have not bothered.  One day. :-)

Stacey

the only thing i can use on my american cocker is on a chain because on anything else she is sick and that cant be nice for her when she wants to be happy and be happy out walking
i would expect your dog to  cough as she lunged like that on any type of  collar around the neck
she got corrected and realised she was in the wrong so started to behave
that person was very selfish to say that she shouldnt let her children do as they please they expect dogs to be under controlle but wot bout the children
i wouldnt worry about it if she isant doing anything bad with her neck or coughing anymore
sounds like the chain was working so i would carry on useing it
bibi for naw fiona

My dog always coughs when she lunges on an ordinary collar.

One of my bitches coughs more when on a half check to when walked on a full check!  this could because she pulls less.

Also how many people show on a fine chain?  I know that 3 of my7 show dogs are and all the boxers my grandparents had were!!!!!

Rox

There are far more "modern and humane" collars about these days,so one does not have to resort to using arcaic devices such as the CHOKE chain.
My friends bullmastiff was a terrible puller and lunger,she now uses the "gentle leader" which has solved the problem,there are also harnesses!  If someone finds the need to have to use a choke chain,i would be looking at obedience schools! A properly trained dog should not pull or lunge,using a c.c is the easy way out,positive reinforcement works much better than enforced pain.

christine

I think they are referred to as 'check chains' these days. It's back to if it suits your dog, don't knock it.
We'd all love a properly trained dog, easier said than done!!

liberty

Giving them a nicer name doesn't make them any kinder.  They work because the dog fears the jerk on the end of the lead. :D

Like half-checks they work because the dog responds to the rattle of the chain, not the 'jerk' (who should learn how to use it properly!) :D

Why would a dog respond to the rattle of the chain?  If I rattled a chain at any of my dogs it would mean nothing to them.

I've found that a noise like that breaks into a dog's thoughts and attracts their attention, especially as it's right by their ear. Jingling keys works too.
:)

I'm working very hard with one of my rescues at the moment on getting attention.  It has never occured to me to use keys or chains.  I am using toys, my voice and click and treat.

I've tried many distracting noises, and find that anything unusual will work for a while - it can be difficult thinking of new ones! Of course, if a dog is used to hearing its tags jingling all the time it is less likely to react to the noise of metal because it has learned to ignore sounds like that. Rustling crisp packets keep their interest for longer than many other sounds - especially when they are rewarded with a crisp!
:)

It always helps to keep an open mind when it comes down to training dogs.  Methods you wouldn't normally consider could be the exact breakthrough a particular dog requires. You never ever stop learning no matter how experienced you may think you are and keeping yourself receptive and flexible to different ideas can make a huge amount of difference to the standards you can attain.

<<<modern and humane" collars >>>>>

Haltis and harnesses are not collers!!!

I personally will never use a harness as it pulls out the dogs elbows, which will not only effect them in the ring for having "lose elbows" (unless you have a breed where the should) but will effect a dog later in life.

I do use a Halti BUT all 4 of my dogs who where a halti learn how to pull with it on!  yes it is attached proberly and it does work at first, I have also seen, unless you get the padded ones they damage the coat around the bottom of the stop.

Also in this year already I have had two dogs have problems with their eyes (one got bitten on the corner of the eye, the other got it caught somehow) if we had halits on these two dogs then we would of done more damage to the surrounding eye area.  So these dogs had to go on collers and personally I rather checks then half checks for walking.

<<<<<<<<<A properly trained dog should not pull or lunge>>>>>>>>

I have 2 obedience trained bitches that went quite high in their classes (I don't do competitions apart from fun at companion shows) and both of these will lunge because I don't have them working all the time!  If my aussie sees a ball then she wil have her eyes fixed on one thing until I manage to call her in, the other, everythime she sees a friend or cat she will lunge, rest of the time she will walk close on the check chain!!!

I would like to lung the setter has been on a halti and she still lunges!

Rox

Rox

I would just carry on using it my to dogs learn from a choke chain and it has happened to me so carry on.

Chelseax, could you repost please, can't work out what you mean. What has happened to you, do you mean your dog has been injured or you have, please repost, thanks.

Hi louise xx, my dog's have choked many times from a choke chain they learned from a choke chain. A choke chain has never done any damage to my dogs.I agree to you carring on using the chain (only if you want to).That lady don't know what she is talking about.
Kirsty

Kirsty, I cannot believe that you really want to choke your dogs.  You and your sister come across as really loving your dogs.   What exactly have your dogs learned from a choke chain I wonder? And as for them never having done any damage you cannot know that for sure.  Do you know anyone who has ever had a whiplash injury, a sore neck, a headache?  Would you have known about their pain unless they actually told you?

There are much kinder ways to train dogs.  Here's a challenge for you.  Don't use choke chains on your two new pups.  Train them with positive methods.  We'll help you or direct you to someone who can.  I bet you'll be converted. ;)
Sally

Locked before it turns into yet another slanging match.