Help.  I think maybe my post in the breeding section has been missed, but I need some help please.  My sister has a litter of 9 puppies which are not all gaining weight as they should.  They are only 3 days old, but most of them have not yet regained their birthweight.  They have been checked by the vet on Sunday, but apart from saying keep an eye on three of them (who were very small and we think dehydrated), did nothing. My sister wants to know whether it would be best to top pups up with formula - she did want to avoid this if at all possible.  Obviously she will do what is best.

Please would someone experienced give some advice.  thanks

Fiona

I have never bred a litter myself but as no one else has answered you I will tell you that I asked a friend who has.... She suggests that as the litter is quite large it is worth a try with lactol formula, then you can at least get an idea if they are getting a decent amount, and ensure that each remains well hydrated. I hope someone more experienced gets to you soon.

Thank you pinklilies.  I was beginning to wonder if I smell or something :).  Thank your friend for me too. I will tell my sister what you have said.

Fiona

Have just replied on the other board - the puppies wont take to formula unless they are hungry. How much is mum eating and drinking? (see other reply as well as question here gives rather different info)

thanks again Fillis.  I have answered you on the other post.

Fiona

If the bitch is eating/drinking ok & vet considers all normal, then yes, i would definitely top up with lactol.

Thanks Sam.  The bitch is not eating normally, but she is eating (scrambled eggs, puppy formula, and tonight she did eat some meat).  Its just some of the puppies are gaining well now and three or so are still extrememly small and have lost weight.

Fiona

You must keep encouraging the bitch to eat and drink - and remember she may readily eat things she turns her nose up at normally. She needs much more food than normal to feed a litter and this is a large litter. Try her with puppy food as it is more concentrated than the adult variety, chicken, cream cheese etc. She may readily take raw meat, even if she has never liked it before. Also remember she is cleaning up after the puppies and washing them - her taste buds will be dulled - live yoghurt will "refresh" and soothe her mouth.  

IMO it does take a couple of days for the family to settle down, are the babies trying to feed, are they strong enough to feed, are they crying, it is always tempting to 'top up' pups but the bitch will produce what the pups need and take from her. You must be experienced at feeding pups too, otherwise you may drown them. As hard as it is I do think sometimes nature must take it's course, easier said than done tho' I know. I have just lost a pup at 1wk old having revived her at birth.

I have tried to reply a couple of times but the messages always sound too harsh so I deleted them.

Are the pups not thriving because they are not eating or because they are not "right"  You will probably have a feeling for this when you compare them to the others.  If you think the litter as a whole would benefit from more food then supplement the stronger ones so that the weaker ones get the added benefit of their mothers milk.  If you feel that the weaker ones will not survive anyway then supplement them to give them a slightly better chance so that the stronger ones don't go without.

Most powdered formulas will revert to powder in tiny pups and block up their insides.  You may be better using something like "Liquid Lifeaid" (obtainable via vets) a rehydration mixture which is used for scouring in farm animals with condenced milk, but I cannot find the quantities - I thought I had it written on the box but it must be in one of my books somewhere.  This was recommended to me when I was handrearing a litter by one of those ladies who specialises in rearing problem pups and orphans.

If pups are not thriving it is generally because there is something wrong with them and they will die young anyway - either within weeks or months.  Sometimes this is not the case but is, more often than not, in my experience.

I said it sounded harsh

Sometimes adding warm water to the bitches food to help soften it helps, I did this for mine for the first week and she gulped it up better then she did when it was hard. With water being added she too is also getting more water in her. I free feed mine so I only did this three times a day to make sure she ate then the food slowely got harder and harder and by the end of the second week she was on hard totally.

It is not unusal for bitches to not eat or only eat a little in the first few days after giving birth.  They normally eat well up until they go into labour then eat all the placentas which are very rich and clear up a lot of the other liquid that abounds during whelping.

Feral bitches would not leave their pups at all in the first few days and would come out when they got hungry

Thank you to everyone who has replied.  My sister has been putting the small puppies to mum more often through the night and they seem to have picked up a bit (hasn't weighed them all yet though).  Will keep doing this through the day.  Since we have no experience of bottle feeding it sounds as though we may be better off just keeping to what we are doing.

Christine, what you said does not sound harsh, it is a fact of life.  You pointed out something we never knew (puppy formula reverting to powder), so we feel we will be better off not topping up at this stage.  The puppies seem weak through lack of food (except one who has lost a lost of weight since birth - even he though has kept his weight since last night).  None of the puppies are crying (and haven't at all since birth) apart from when they first wake up for food.

Mums appetite seems to be picking up too, so we are keeping our fingers crossed. Thanks again everyone.

Fiona (and Karen)

I think there are two reasons for quiet pups - one is that they are contented and don't need food or warmth, these will often squeal when picked up or when being washed by Mum (or when she gets up and leaves the box) and moan in their sleep.

Hi everyone and thanks again.  All the puppies do twitch in their sleep, some occasionally moan (one even seemed to be dreaming). We do still have three puppies that have lost weight, although they have all been feeding today.  One, we are especially worried about, but we will keep trying with them. thanks again

Fiona (and Karen)