May have posted this in the wrong place. So sorry if i have! Anyway we've got a lovely white pied eyed bitch Staff called Angel. She's gorgeous and loves being part of the family, bonding particularly well with my 20 month old daughter. She's growing great (although quite long legged compared to the "average" Staff) but i have one question that i can't find the answer to in the Staff Puppy book. When do their heads grow? I've heard some rumours about their skulls splitting and that this can cause some pain and i was wondering if this is true? Could someone please inform me of the truth.
With thanx

How old is your staff?
Usually heads begin to "split" at around 8 to 10 months, but alot depends on whether the dog is a slow or quick maturer.
Is your dog more the "terrier" type as you state she is quiet long in the leg?
If she is alot more to the terrier side then it may well be her head will not change dramatically and she will remain a "smaller" headed staffy.
The bullier type do tend to have bigger heads with more pronounced stops.
Whatever the "type" of staff you have don't worry as at the end of the day she is your much loved pet and the size of the head will not affect her love for you :-)

Hello again Staffie,
nice to see you back.

Karen :)

Thanks Staffie.
Yeah she seems to be a little more terrier, neither of her parents had huge heads. And your right she is much loved and will continue to be no matter how big or small her head is. It's just at the moment she's looks a little strange(not in a bad way) she's got a huge neck, thick strong shoulders and a little head. However she is only coming on 7 months and has time to alter yet. I was really just querying what i'd heard.
Thanks again.

how is she bred? just out of interest ;-)

how is she bred? Erm..not quite sure what you mean. But if you're asking if she's pedigree then yes and i have the papers. The breeder owned both mother and father. Although i felt the mother was a little young to be breeding, both mother, father and litter were in good health. Ch blood in her 5th Generation. Does that answer your query? :)

Staffyhappy meant what is her pedigree..her parents names?...are there any repeated lines in her pedigree (affixes the same) ?? It can sometimes help if you can identify the parents or lines behind a dog to try and decie what type they are and if they will be slow or fast maturers
Archer

How old was her "Mother" then if you felt she was a little young?
Staffyhappy - was inquiring as archer said to try to identfy lines of breeding so people could assess what "type" she is.

Karen

Ok I think I have it...Moosskel and Ramblestaff mentioned a good few times on her pedigree. Ch Warcloud of Ironstone and Ch Constones Yer Man on Fathers side. Bitch was 18 months.
Did i get the info right this time???   :D

Bitch is on the young side but seems to have a decent pedigree :)

Most of one of our friends Staffies are out of Mooskel and Ramblestaff lines. The bitches are all very feminine headed and the dogs don't have really deep or chunky heads like some of the other kennels such as Valglo, Bullhawk or Megabyte. Her head will probably crack between 9-12months if it hasn't done so already. Because of the very deep blackness of many Staffords it looks like their heads are bigger than a pied or a reds in my opinion don't know if anyone agrees or disagrees?

Hello luxnallsstaffs,

I agree Ramblestaff have very feminine headed bitches. And I never thought about it before but I think you may be right about black staffords.

Karen

Thank you everybody for your input and information. Now i know what's happening i can stop worrying. As for her height and thinking she was tall...i measured her and she's 15 inches to her shoulder not sure at what age they're height stops growing but she's obviously not as long legged as i first thought.
Again thank you everyone..it's nice to know there is someone to go to ask questions from people that are experienced. :D

height wise shes well within the standard :)

Hello Ginger,
     I imagine she looks taller because she is at the worst possible age for a Staffie, when they look like they are straight up and down, they look better when they start to muscle up. The standard says 14" x 16" so she sounds about perfect. :)  so I suspect her name Angel suits her?
Karen

no, staffiehappy didnt mean that at all, he meant is your stafford irish or Kc type?

Staffiehappy I think you will find Constones, Mooskell and Ramblestaff are UK  Staffys

Staffiehappy - I think (only a suggestion no one bite my head off) your getting the posts confused :) .

Karen

My Staff is now just over 5 months old and his head is still on the small side by comparison with other Staffs.  He is fairly leggy, but is already becoming very muscular.  Other owners who we have met have said he is going to be a big dog, but I do not know what the implications are for his head 'splitting'.

What exactly do these 'Moosskel' and 'Ramblestaff' affixes mean?  Do they refer to breeding lines, or specific breeders?  On my dog's KC certificate, there are letters after his name in brackets (AD2), and after his father's, are the letters (AB2) and mother's (AA2).  Can anyone enlighten me as to what these mean?

AA, AB, AD and there is another but not sure if it is AC, are relative to when your dog's dam (mother) and sire (dad) were born. Think AA is the first quarter of the year ie jan - march but i may be wrong. Mooskeel and Ramblestaff just two of the kennels who breed staffords in the uk others are Beaconmoor, Donnellas, Crossguns, Valglo, Cragails, Waystaff, Wyrefare, Albastaff, Ashstock, Harkline Boldavier, Hasweth, Kimstaff and the list goes on and on. All they are are names to link a dog with a kennel so you know who has bred that dog. What is your dogs registered name and what are the names of his dan and sire and granddams and sires?

Thanks for that reply - clears that one up for me!

The Sire's registered name is Battle of Sixty Six, and the Dam is Baroness Mighty.  Is that any help?  My Staff's registered name is Sumo of Ten Sixty Six.

I am going to get the KC to track the further generations but at the moment I have not got the grandparents' info.

would be interested to know what line he has got behind him when you get the five genration pedigree. keep us informed!

Sure no problem - thanks for taking an interest :)  I am contacting the KC now.

By the way, how can I find out more about all the different Staff lines?  I would have thought there are so many Staffs that it must be very hard to know anything like the majority of them?

There are thousands of them but many of them crossover. You will find that alot of kennels seem to use each others dog or bitches on a regular basis as they want to keep to a certain type of breeding plan. A good point to start with is the S.B.T annual by Bev Harrison or the Annual by Alan Hedges (both about £18 or £20) as it shows many of the 'older' dogs in the breed and also the main wimmers of the present year and which kennels they came from and their five generation pedigrees. Also check out www.staffords.co.uk to see some of the 'top' kennels in the uk. Any of the dogs on your dogs pedigree highlighted in red means they are/were champions and the genral belief is that the more champions in a dogs breeding the better the dog will be (not always the case though!)

I just spoke to the KC, and they said he had 10 champions highlighted in his 5 generation pedigree.  Is that average or does that mean he should be showed?

Also, whilst they could not go into great detail, they said on his father's side were 'Constones' and 'Cross Guns' and on his mother's side were 'Scarthwaite' as well as 'Constones'.  Does that help?  Also 4 of the 10 champions were mentioned: 'Barda The Gabba', 'Constones High Five', 'Constones Yer Man', 'Cross Guns Revolution'.

I would really appreciate any feedback you may be able to offer in terms of what kind of Staff he might be (he is leggy), as well as potential in the showring judging on pedigree.

Cheers :)

There are some good kennels behind him. Constones are one of the best kennels in the breed for continously producing sound bitches and dogs. I think that the present kennel owner is a 2nd generation breeder who has taken over from her dad who was breeding and showing in the 60's and 70's. The present Crossguns dog, even though bred by another kennel Valglo Cassonova at Crossguns, in the Uk CC record holder (30 at present and pelnty more to come I am sure!) and i have found Jo and Bill to be of great help whenever i have called them before. Scarthwaite have prduced some lovely dogs in recent times Ready for Jucmar being the fisrt that springs to mind, and your boy will look leggy as he has yet to 'drop' and fill out in the chest and ribs. I think it would be worth your while to enter him in a few shows, try local open shows first, see how you get on and then take the step up to a breed specific show.

Thanks for that :)

I have been doing some google searches and it was re-assuring to find some Staffs who actually resemble mine from those same lines!

You will also find that some lines tend to mature slower than others too - in other words they may look puppy-like for a longer time than say some of the heavier lines who can look mature at 9 months of age or so .
There is a mix of both in the show ring at the moment- although sometimes its a matter of finding a judge that prefers a certain type :) Some judges will prefer bulldog types , some the athletic lines and some will go purely for head . Although a decent judge will go for balance of course
Hope that makes sense :)

Yeah it definitely makes sense.  The main reason that I would like to show him is because we have apparantly 'graduated' from the basic puppy training, and I want to continue with some activities that involve us both.  I am also thinking about agility training which looks like it could be a lot of fun.  Is there any ideal age to start that?  As I mentioned I think previously, he is just over 5 months now.

For staffy agility you need to enroll in some obedience classes first and most agility groups will not take a dog on before twelve months of age .
Although Staffys do agility classes :)
a good site to look at for this is cleverstaffords link here
Wendy on this site is a mine of information and really helpful :)
good luck :D

Once again, thank you for the advice!

He has had four general obedience classes, and the trainer then said that he was great and that we could come back for some agility classes after a break.  She may have said come back at 6 months old but I may have remembered that incorrectly!  Anyway, I will check out the clever staffords website and see what info I can get from there!

Hi,
I've just started taking my Staff to agility, he's 12 months.
He's never been to any obedience classes, I was told as long as his recall is ok , he'll be fine.
They told me they have to be 6 months before they are allowed to join in.
My Staff is doing fine, he's only been 3 times, but he already does most of it off lead.

Michelle.

  I take my Stafford to agility classes to she loves them. She's 16 months old and hopefully I  might be entering a couple of summer agilty shows. So yes they can do it and mine loves it :)
  Karen 

I have been investigating the agility work a little more and it seems like a great thing to do.  Although I was told that a lot of the jumping etc is not advisable until 15 months or so because of bone structure etc.  I guess you could just start with other exercises.  Anyway it seems like fun :).

Having said that my Staff throws himself about so much that I can't see how jumping would affect him!  The things he does sometimes its hard to watch but then he walks away grinning as ever waiting for the next amusement to come along!!  He seems to have no concept of the fact that he is still a little guy, particularly around big dogs!