If I was to change Gus (Staffy) over to a fresh food diet from a complete dried food what sorts of foods should I be looking at feeding him and in what sorts of quantities ?
Would he need supplements and would I need to introduce it slowly .
I am not a lover of meat for myself and couldnt feed anything like liver etc but would appreciate some information from those that feed this kind of diet to their own dogs ?
Although he looks well on his current food , I am worrying about his itching feet ( not necessarily proven yet to be his diet but it hasnt been ruled out either)
plus reading about the contents of various dog foods does not make for happy reading :rolleyes:

any advice would be much appreciated :)

If by "fresh" you mean raw then you would be looking at feeding no more than 60% of the diet as Raw Meaty Bones (RMBs) eg such as chicken wings, legs, drumsticks, carcases, thighs, lamb shanks, pigs trotters, ox tail etc etc to ensure that the dog is getting the correct phsophorus:calcium ratio.  Dogs MUST eat bone as well as meat.  You say you don't like feeding liver but it is easy to slit open a plastic pack and slither it into a bowl :D and dogs should eat at least one meal of offal (kidneys/liver) every 10 days or so for Vitamin A and other nutrients.  The rest of the food intake should be muscle meat (including heart), raw or tinned fish such as sardines/pilchards/mackeral, raw eggs (including shell).  Meat can be anything - beef, lamb, pork, poultry, rabbit, venison etc etc etc.  No more than 10% of the food intake should be raw vegetable which must be either frozen or pulped in order to be available to the dog.  Not all dogs like veggies and many dogs lead very health lives without them!  I throw in live yoghurt on a regular basis but feed no other dairy products and no grains.

Supplements - I feed Keepers Mix which is mainly alfalfa/kelp during the winter as it has all known minerals and vitamins.  I feed 1000mg of FBO per day to ensure adequate intake of Omega 3s essential for healthy brain function as my meat is generally grain fed; with this I feed 400 iu of Vitamin E per day as well as they both have a syngergistic effect.  Although dogs synthesise their own Vitamin C it may not be necessarily enough and I give 1000mg of Vitamin C per day as well and freshly crushed garlic or garlic and fenugreek tablets daily.  In the winter I give occasional EPO and/or CLO capsules as well.

Quantities - around 2 - 3% of the adult dog's bodyweight per day therefore if you have a 30kg dog you would be feeding between 600gm - 900gm per day; however this varies on time of year, sex, activity levels and temperament.

I changed my dogs over cold turkey with no problems but some dogs need to go over slowly.

HTH

When you first change over you will naturally "pooh watch" - don't panic!  It is quite normal to see some bones to start with but the dog's digestive system will get used to this way of feeding within a few days and you then rarely see them again (unless you have a bitch who learns to open the fridge and eat twelve chicken carcass's in one session)

<<(unless you have a bitch who learns to open the fridge and eat twelve chicken carcass's in one session)>>
:D :D :D

Do all dogs take naturally to this type of diet ? I know in the wild it wouldnt be a problem because they would be eating fresh meat anyway :rolleyes: but since he has been brought up on dried food -which by the way he eats but is so more excited when he is being fed chicken and mackeral etc
What fish do you feed besides mackeral and sardines as he is a bit of a fish lover and does cooked meat take out any valuable nutrients ? I usually cook any chicken given and mince too.
Sorry if this is basic information for those that feed this but I want to ensure he recieves the correct foods, vitamins and  nutrients

would he also need a ratio of cereals - I know a large part of dried food is cereal ?
and are any vegetables more preferential than others ? Brocolli etc

I know of no dogs that do not like and mostly prefer raw food :D  Dogs previously thought to be not interested in food suddenly become ravenous overnight! :D 

Some dogs do not like raw fish but most like tinned either in brine (rinsed) or in tomato sauce (I prefer the ones without modified maize starch).  Oily fish is what you are looking for.

Cooking changes the molecular structure of food, destroyes valuable enzymes and vitamins; hence some dogs allergic to cooked meat are not to raw!

There is no proven need for carbohydrates in the dog's diet (even the pet food manufacturer Waltham (pedigree) says this!) :D  Commercial foods are made up of over 50% cereals because it is cheap!  Dogs would not eat domesticated cereal in the wild (when was the last time you saw a wolf ravage a wheat field) :D

Onions are toxic, you need to take care with certain vegetables not to feed too much but in general a bit of anything is fine.

Sorry to butt in on Lel's thread but this is what I'm giving Bess, does it sound OK or am I missing any nutrients?... meaty bones (found a free source ;) ), chicken wings or drumsticks daily plus liver once a week, 1 or 2 eggs a week, yoghurt or cottage cheese couple of times a week, kelp, EPO, brewers yeast and a little bit of garlic (to repel fleas), small amount of veg. She does still have a small amount of dry food as I'm not confident I've got it right yet, but I'd really like to cut that out.

Kath.

Personally I would not feed brewers yeast as I prefer to keep away from anything that could encourage or trigger yeast overgrowths and there is nothing in Brewers yeast that I cannot get elsewhere. Neither do I feed cottage cheese as I feel that again the dog is lactose intolerant.  But that is a personal view.  Hopefully you are feeding from more than once protein source ie not just chicken, as this is the way to avoid food intolerances and possible allergies.  This would include muscle meat.  Looks fine to me. 

I see no reason why you need to continue commercial food as well.

That said this is must my personal point of view :)

Thanks Tohme, that's a great help. I must admit I was wondering about the brewers yeast and was giving it really for fleas as I don't use any flea sprays etc and had a problem with them a while back but hopefully the garlic will help with that. I use homeopathy a lot so if I did get a problem I can use that too. I'll cut out the dry food now and I can give extra yoghurt instead of the cottage cheese.

Thanks again. :)
Kath.

edit. forgot to ask >>"Hopefully you are feeding from more than once protein source ie not just chicken, as this is the way to avoid food intolerances and possible allergies.  This would include muscle meat".

The meaty bones are from different species, is that enough or should I be buying actual pieces of muscle meat from different sources as well.

Fresh garlic or garlic and fenugreek tablets tend to keep fleas at bay and so does feeding raw in itself :D

Meaty bones - again are they what I call RMBs ie really meaty bones or just bones more for recreational use ie more bone than meat?  If the latter is the case then I would review my source or add in some cheap mince, green tripe etc.

HTH

The bones are probably about half/half   meaty/recreational so I'll mix in some mince and try to find some tripe.

Yes, a big help, many thanks. I'll be so glad to give up the dry stuff. :)

I am another one who isn't confident enough to make the total change - as Barney is only 6 months old I'm frightened he won't get the correct nutrients while he is still growing.  So he is on half raw and half Burns, I have bought the book Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by K. Schultze.  Barney loves raw carrots and raw green beans (not pulped), I actually use raw green beans when I am training him, he will do anything for a green bean  :D   In your reply above you mentioned that veggies had to be frozen or pulped, does this mean that Barney isn't benefiting from his veggies?
Thanks.

Some dogs like lots of veggies and fruits and you can use them as treats or, in the case of carrots and puppies, gnawing practice.  However, because the cell walls have not been broken down the dog's body will not be able to access the nutrients and so their role will be as fibre (which can be observed by looking at the stool) :)  Nothing wrong in that as long as you are aware of this. :D

Kymythy Schulze's book is excellent and extremely accessible with easy reference to nutrients and their sources etc.

HTH

I cook my dogs meat as they wont touch raw :( but i compensate by giving digestive enzymes,which replaces the enzymes lost during the cooking process.There are so many ways in which to feed a home made diet,some feed grains,alot dont,some feed veg,others dont etc. etc. Remember that you dont have to provide a complete,balanced meal at every feed,balance is acheived over time,it's honestly not as hard as you may think,you dont weigh out every ingredient when you are cooking for your family nor do you give them 10% veg,60% meat etc. same goes for our pets,there are loads of good books out there packed full of info,try Amazon.com I bought an excellent book from them called "the natural health bible for dogs and cats" by Shawn Messioner,it covers all the supplements and herbs one can give to a pet,it also covers diseases and remedies,i wont ever have to buy another pet book again~thank god~ at last count i had 30 books on holistic remedies and nutrition.
For example for tonights dinner my dogs had: rabbit,pasta,liver and celery and for dessert they had a pork rib. Tommorrow night they'll get beef and bacon sausages(their fave),the next night they'll have a stew that i lovingly made for them,LOL,they truly do eat better than us,they have all these vitamins and vegies and i dont eat any of them!! by the end of the week they will have received everything nutritionally that they need.Liver truly is an excellent food for our dogs,it has a myriad of vitamins,some people say to only feed once per week due to the high vitA content,but i have read consistently that 1 tbs. per day is fine mixed in with their food as long as you dont exceed 10% of the total meal.I know what you mean about touching offal etc. when i first started i wretched when i had to touch liver ect. but NOW i have no problem in mincing up fresh green tripe,chop up liver,kidney or heart,the benefits these things give to my dogs far outweigh the gross out factor,i nearly gave up in the beginning as it really put me off but you do get used to it,promise.
I also supplement with:echinacea,esther c,spirulina and FBO/EPO
Most folk switch over cold turkey with no probs,sometimes dogs arent sure how to take raw/real food as they are so used to dry bits of kibble,which is a true shame,but they soon get the hang of it and never look back :D

Please let us know how you get on and dont be afraid to ask any questions,this is my favourite subject, i could ramble on for hours ;)

christine

Just to update :
gave a raw chicken drumstick for tea yesterday and at first he didnt have a clue what to do with it . He Had a little lick but it didnt seem that interesting at first although he soon got the taste for it.  :)

Lesley

See what he does to a plate of raw beef,  it's the only thing Sal has raw (I'm a coward) and she almost inhales it.

Karen

I "nearly" bought liver for him but couldnt do it ...... Yeeeuuukkk - its so vile :rolleyes:

Lel what's so gross about that big brown slab of gooey meat sitting in it own bloody juices?? :D :D

Another option is to bake the liver,just slide it out on a oven tray,you wont even have to touch it,then bake for around 20min. on 150 degrees,but it will lose some of it nutrients! My dogs will do backflips for the stuff and it doesnt smell whilst it's cooking.i found ox liver stunk,it can clear my house of people quick smart,it's handy to have around when you want to get rid of pesky visitors,just throw a couple of chunks in the oven and watch the aroma overcome them,LOl :D

christine :)

Thanks for the info Ozzie
I know you can get the boil in the bag stuff etc but this particular shop didnt stock it .
I will have to be brave and have a look for some :)

Lel,
    Find an elderly neighbour and get them to cook it for him ;) you know old people they'll cook anything - the war and all that, just like my Mom ;)
Karen

That is what is such a relief about feeding raw, it doesnt smell (apart from tripe i just discovered - EAUGH!).

I agree, tripe is the very very very stinkiest thing I have ever come across! No wonder dogs like to eat poo if they also like tripe! :D :D