I have posted before about my friends puppy-the Lab- with elbow probs. his condition has taken a serious twist, and I am therefore looking for anyone who can offer advice, or suggestions regarding this. the situation is as follows
according to the vet the pup has all three types of osteochrondritis of his elbow, being fragmented medial coronoid process, ununited anconeal process and osteochrondritis dissecans, together with ulna shortening, putting more presure on his elbows.He is currently on weekly cartrofen injections and daily Fortiflex tablets. He has arthritis now in his elbows. Although sometimes stiff, he shows no lameness on reduced exercise. but, typical pup, he does jump around a play in the home.
the vet is now suggesting an operation where the ulnas would be broken, thus lengthing the bone, and the elbow lesions in his elbows would be 'cleaned out.' this is the 'drastic' bit, and for then the most worrying, as the outcome cannot be guarenteed but it should make things eaiser. The vet says it has to be done this month, as the bones will be to 'set' after jan(the pup is now 10 mths). Has anyone heard of this operation for these complaints? is there a website where this complaint and surgery is explained? Absolutly any help will be so welcome, as they are really worried about it all, money is not the problem as the pup is insured with Pet Plan (wouldn't have been a problem anyway, they are the sort that would have found it one way or another!) but if this radical surgery is necessary is the main thing, and will the dog benifit from it. i am trying to get her to have the vet refere her to Liverpool or Bristol hospitals, for a second opinion, which is what I would certainly do! hope to hear from you all soon!!

What a sad story! Sorry I have no experience with this condition but I agree with you that experienced advice is necessary. I wouldn't have such an extensive operation done on one so young without an opinion from a specialist. I once had a vet tell a new puppy owner that if his 9 week old pup didn't have surgery for a heart murmur within a month, he wouldn't see his first birthday. I asked him to come and see my vet who said that would be signing the pup's death sentence and leave well alone. Of course I offered to take the pup back but the new owners refused and wanted to keep him. He went on to reach the age of 13, having led a "normal life" including living in Spain for 2 years and doing the required quarantine on his return. He never had a days illness in his life. Definitely, off to a specialist at one of the Veterinary Colleges and, if necessary, let the specialist do the operation as well. It's often not more expensive than the local GP Vet. Fingers crossed.

In the case of OCD I think it is quite common to have an op to remove the pieces from the joint but I'm not sure about the other procedures mentioned. I would ask for a referal to a orthopedit specialist but it may not be nessesary to travel to London or Bristol and also take a look at the x-rays and ask for them to be explaned in detail. The dog is almost bound to suffer from arthritis in later years if the work is done or not. Sorry about the spelling if I fetch the dictonary my ISP will chuck me off. JH

I WOULD GET A SECOND OPINION,ON THE CASE.THE VET ARE LIKE OUR GP AND THEY SENT YOU TO A SPECIALIST FOR A SECOND OPINION,MY FLATCOAT IS HAVING A SECOND LOT OF XRAYS THIS WEEK FOR HIS ELBOW ,ANKLE AND SHOULDER,THEN THE XRAYS ARE GOING DOWN TO A ORTHOPEDIT VET IN WORTHING,FOR SECOND OPINION,ALL THE BEST WITH THE PUP

Terri, can you take your CAPS LOCK off please. It makes your posts very hard to read.

Thanx :-)

Leigh

Thanks for your replies--Please keep them coming!! What we all can't understand is why the puppy is not lame, as i would have thought he should be, but then I don't have knowledge of this condition.
I really think a referal is the best way forward, and should this operation be necessary a specialist do it. I wonder if there are 2 conditions here, the elbows being one, and the ulnas being the other, but are the ulnas part of the elbow problem? Anyone any ideas?

would have thought that the OCD or the ununited anconeal prosess may have caused damage to the growing plate of the ulna, but I'm in no way an expert. If you get a referal be sure to ask lots of questions so you know why the treatment suggested is needed. I am suprised that the puppy is not lame, is it just the one leg or two? If it is both he may have developed a gate to compensate for the pain making it difficult to see the lameness. JH

Have you told the breeder, I'm sure they will want to know.

It's a pity John isn't still posting :-(

Hope this doesn't make things awkward but I do wish he would return as I learned quite a bit from reading his posts :-)

Hi Claire I agree you could always rely on John to have a knowledgeable reply to help people coupled with sound advice from the other posters but people can email him privately for advice Im sure he would be pleased to help

Sorry to hear of the news about the puppy, I can't help you with any of the information required but dogs are amazing things I know of dogs with a maximum hip score that are as sound as a bell maybe this is due to the fact that dog has always been that way rather than damage done later on who knows? I would DEFINATLY ask to see an ortho specialist good luck

Ours was a slightly different case.
The trainer we went too thought our puppy 'sat funny'.
Took him to the vets at 6 months old and had hip/shoulder/elbow X-rays done.
We were told he would most probably need a Triple Pelvic Osteotomy.
Absolutely devastated we asked for a second opinion and were referred to the most
superb Orthopaedic Surgeon, near Newcastle upon Tyne.
He monitored the puppy for about 3 months with X-rays every 2-3 weeks and eventually it
was decided that the best way forward was not an operation, as the pup actually had no difficulty/pain/discomfort with
his movements. That was a year ago and to this day, fingers still crossed, he is fit and strong.
I would definitely ask for second, even third opinions.
Just for info, we are insured with Petplan and they have been excellent, no quibbles and paid OS direct.
Good luck with your friend's puppy.
Sally.

Sally What do you mean by 'sat funny'? I'm nuerotic about our lab puppy (6 months old)getting HD although I checked the parents scores etc, but she somtimes sits with her back legs sort of splayed out, I hope that's not a bad sign:-(

Hi Thistle,
Well, we had noticed the way our puppy (also a Labrador) sat but never thought anything of it.
It was sort of on one side with his back legs spread open.His father had hips of 2:2 and mother was 5:6, so not bad scores.
Actually, I think we thought nothing of it as we've seen lots of dogs sit in this 'relaxed' way.
However, when the trainer pointed it out, we panicked.
Our old Lab had HD at the end and it was not nice.
I have to say our vet and the OS gave contrasting advice re exercise.
Vet said restricted only and on a lead, OS said controlled free exercise within reason for a pup of his (then) age, to see if his hips were going to cope. Which they did, thankfully.
Having returned from the beach this morning and seen him in the sea playing with a Boxer, you'd never believe the worry we had this time last year!
I'm sure your puppy is fine but we all worry don't we, when we hear other people's problems.
Best wishes,
Sally.

I've been looking at Thistle sitting now and she does sit how you said yours did-sort of on one side. Did yours have any other symptoms? Do you think it could have been coincidence. I'm sure I've seen lots of dogs sitting like that B4. Am I being neurotic?

Jane

Hi Jane,
When we were at a Champ dog show recently(only as interested spectators!) every Lab we saw seemed to be sitting like this!!
Our puppy showed absolutely no signs whatsoever.
He never showed any form of discomfort/pain/stiffness - anything.
The only thing he was bothered with for a few weeks was a migratory limp on his front legs, which disappeared.
We thought this may be a compensation for his hips when we found out but the OS said no.
It is hard to explain here, but my husband was not keen on the idea of putting this livewire puppy who had no sypmtoms of any pain etc through an enormous op. As it turned out the OS did not feel the hips warranted this operation anyway. He felt, although they weren't good, they weren't causing him any problems either.
Now though, we are careful with how much 'jumping' about he does and we don't throw the ball very often, as this tends to jar the body. We're also careful about his weight too.
I thought I was a worrier before but this dog has brought me to new heights!
What an achievement!!!! Anyway, I often find a G&T does wonders for the nerves!
Do you have other dogs? Finn is coming up to 18 months and is becoming quite 'headstrong' - going through his teenage years I suppose.
Regards,
Sally.

I have the web addresses of a couple of sites on OCD at home. I'll dig them out and insert them later as a link.

I'd definitely get your friend to see a specialist or at least get the x-rays looked at. This would be major surgery and, much as I think they're a great practice, I wouldn't let my normal vet do this kind of thing. Nor would they offer. When TH had her "episode" after monitoring, they sent her x-rays down to the specialist, who looked at them for £20. It can't hurt.