hi,
my dog is shep, a short haired border collie.  we got him from a rescue centre in december.  hes about 14months old and he has a lovely nature and temperament.  however, he has a thing about aeroplanes.  from the noise of them flying over (we live under a flight path) and the sight of them, even the ones you cant hear, up high and leaving a trail in the sky.  at night when there is very little or no cloud cover, he is watching anxiously for one of those 'stars' to move.  the barking is terrible, as is the running at speed through the house.  i have to put him in the hall out of site of the windows.  many other of sheps problems are slowly improving, but this one sticks out like a sore thumb now. im at my wits end with it.  the summer is coming and im dreading it, short of leaving him in the house, how can i enjoy the garden or even put washing out?  and lets not forget sheps enjoyment, we have a decent size garden which we should all be able to enjoy together.  i have seen a trainer, read several books, including the dog listener and like i say, other areas have been slowly improving,  just not this one.  i appreciate the need to be pack leader, and i think that is coming very slowly, but in the meantime, i am defeated. does anyone have any safe ideas?? please help, im desperate.

Just wondering how you react when Shep spots / hears a plane

we have tried loads of stuff from ignoring his behaviour and carrying on as normal, talking to him, giving him a treat (read this one is supposed to give a positive association), out on the lead we have restricted his lead so he cant move and talk to him.  in the house we have tried the ignoring method, interupting his 'run' and getting him to sit and stay until the plane (visually and audibly) has gone.  the most success we had was making him sit and stay, but it didnt stop him doing it in the first place. 

I know its not the same subject but maybe this might help. Our buster had a fear of our petrol lawn mower and would go crazy when we started it up and try to bite it. In the house he would be so hyper and he would bark so load we could hear him outside over the noise. The way we got round this was to have him on the lead and make him sit quietly while we mowed, every time he tried to go for it or get hyper we would distract him with toys food etc.. Because he couln't get away and we were in control he did calm down. Now when we get the mower out he gets his ball and drops it in front of it so we have to throw it. lol.

thanks, ile try it.  shep has the same reaction to the hoover, so hopefully it could work for that too. 

You mention the need to be pack leader and although to a degree you must have rules and guidelines if you are too strict and controlling this is the sort of thing that a dog will do to 'let of steam' and/or 'get their fix'.  Dog's need to have fun and I am not suggesting for one minute that you don't provide it but maybe he gets such a buzz out of chasing planes that nothing you give comes close.  I have a young collie who engages in obsessive behaviour.  When she came to live with us she was a seasoned car chaser.  Even a car starting up on the drive would send her crazy.  We spent a lot of time teaching her to do other things and play with a ball and kept her away from cars completely.  Once she was focused on a game with us we gradually introduced the cars again, very slowly, making sure that she didn't go wrong or regress at all.   She will ignore cars completely now. (1 year later) I appreciate that living on a flight path makes it difficult to avoid planes but is it possible to deny him the opportunity to see or even think about the planes, keep him away from windows, take him out in the car away from the flight path for exercise instead of in the garden. 

Sally

dear sally

thanks for replying - i was just looking at scallywags.com.  i checked out your details after reading a reply you made to another person.  you talked like a dog trainer.  the problem in my front room is that it is a through lounge, about 25', with patio doors at one end and a floor to ceiling window at the front.  i have rearranged the furniture to put the couch in front of this big window and blocked his access with a table at one end and a wooden magazine rack under that.  he just jumps it and jumps on the couch and even sits on the back of the sofa.  he will jump down to run to the patio or into the hall and back again onto the couch with such momentum that the couch hits the window, he really goes into a frenzy. 

i think there is some truth in what you say about getting a fix, despite his behaviour at home, out on a walk his reactions to them are either non-existant or minor.  out in the garden for a wee he has on occaision got so wrapped in the sky that he cant or wont wee, then when we go back in he cocks his leg and relieves himself.  i have had a one on one consultation with a border collie trainer and read several books, including jan fennells.  im in danger of information overload, everyone has their own ideas about what is good/bad, healthy/dangerous, its difficult to know what is right.  i know dogs are individuals and what may work for one may not work for the other, but i really dont know what the answer is.  do think clicker training would work for us in other areas (we have seen improvements, all be it slowly) shep is also a car chaser, not stationary ones or even those moving slowly, but his fear of loud, fast moving objects is dominating everything.

when we got shep from the rescue centre, we knew we had some tricky times ahead, but nothing could have prepared me for the disruption to come.  he is definitely a smart dog and i think he must have watched 'lady and the tramp' at some point because he was the quietest, best behaved dog in the centre, he must have known how to behave to be chosen!!  the only history we have for him is that is now approx 14mnths old.  he was a stray, we dont know for how long, he had been in two dogs homes in two weeks, being neutered in the first.  we appreciate that he needs time to recover from past experiences and to trust us.  i think he has suffered some abuse because he cowers and he wont come near me when i hold a cigarette.  the road would be so much better if we could begin to sort this problem.  everything else that has been an eye opener for us are now miniscule in comparison.  i have bought and read books about rescue dogs and now understand him and his behaviour much better.  if it helps to know, he responds to my 14yr old son better than me, he also responds well to my dad and my 6'   15yr old nephew.  maybe he doesnt think im able to be leader and vies for this position all the time.

im sorry this is so long,  thought it might help if you had some background.  i would really appreciate your advice as there have been times when i have decided to find him a new home only to be thwarted by my children, he gives me those collie 'eyes' that he so cleverly gave me that first time we met and i melt.  he really is a lovely dog, but there are times when i feel out of my depth.

We had bengi from rescue and he too would cower when ever you went near him. He also reponded better to My partner than me. It has taken us 8 months to gain his trust. We did this by praising him and giving lots of cuddles and when we told him off we did not enforce it with a smack only by ignoring his behaviour to begin with. He is still wary of strangers but is getting better. Have you thought about going to dog classes? Its a great way to make friends and it gives shep some socialisation away from his friends and he wont be top dog all of the time. One way to assert yourself more as top dog is for you to decide when he plays with his toys. If he brings one to you and you would like to play say no then wait even if its just two minutes then pick the toy up and play, this shows him you are incontrol but not being too forcefull.

have thought about dog classes, but most of them ive enquired about want him to go to the 'grumpy and growlers' class first for 'pre-socialisation'.  i dont think he needs it, some dogs he likes, some he doesnt.  im afraid i dont go along with the school of thought that all dogs should get on - i dont like all the people i meet, i cant apply a different standard to shep.  as soon as i find a local class without that requirement i will go along with him.

with regard to controlling play, i do.  i have learnt that one, i dont love him if he comes up to me either, i only do that at my instigation.  its hard to do, but i believe it is having the desired effect.  we also do some training called 'telly training'.  sat down watching the telly, i ask him to come over to me, if he doesnt, i go and get him and make him sit next to me.  if he comes over uninvited i make him go back.  the idea being he must be made to do the opposite of what he wants and  for him to see that i am in charge of what he does and that he does what i say.  he definitely knows when im tired and not in 100% mode!!  i just hope we sort the aeroplane problem, it really is getting in the way of getting the most out of this relationship.

I agree.  He doesn't need to go to a class - certainly not a 'grumpy and growlers' class  but you do need some help with his training.  However I am going to be controversial here and suggest that you stop trying to be in charge and stop making him do the opposite to what he wants.  Sure he cannot do what he wants all the time but if he is coming up to you for a love, why shouldn't he get it?    Like I said before if you try and control him too much he will find something to do that you will struggle to control such as chasing planes!!  Your relationship with your dog should be based on cooperation not competition.

Sally

Smaffy, If only there was a straightforward answer. I do think though that you have to find a way to stop the frenzied running about and jumping on the furniture.  Can you not restrict his access to the lounge?  I am loathe to suggest a crate but it may be that you will have to confine him and provide him with a stuffed Kong for example when you cannot be with him keeping him otherwise occupied.  What do you feed him by the way?  Are you clicker training him?  The more you can give him to do the less he will look for stimulation on his own.  Collies need lots of free running but not in the lounge ;) and lots of supervised play and training.  You say you had a one to one consultation with a trainer.  Did they offer any follow ups?  What you really need is help on a regular basis with training and living with Shep until the problem is resolved. 

Sally

Keep looking for a class the trainer can give loads of advice on behaviour problems at no extra cost other that the price of the lesson itself. The class i go to is mixed and not all the dogs do get on especially mine, he has got it in for dogs with white in their fur. What area are you in?

hi sonny,
i live in warrington, cheshire.  i have a car but i cant travel too far, im a single parent and babysitting is a problem.  seriously thinking of trying clicker training, seemed to have tried most other methods!

hi sally,
we do have a crate for shep, quite a large one, yes i do put him in it when he goes into a frenzy, either that or he gets confined to the hall, i cant allow him access to any room without supervision because we have too many things that are far too interesting for this collie to resist.  he just loves to be chased with something he shouldnt have!  he lets me know when hes bored for sure.  i have never tried clicker training, but my boss uses it and reckons shes having good results with it.  to be honest i was trying to apply the 'pack leader' method of training.  i believe for the most part it works, although i dont think im a strong enough character to maintain this and i think shep knows it too.  i have learnt about body language though and i think that more than the 'pack leadership' has been beneficial.  i do email with the trainer that i took him to see, but i guess i cant apply the technique of being in charge is proving difficult for me.

we feed him pal because it is quite low in protein (and believe me he does have a 'reaction' to too much protein) and it is gentle on his stomach, anything richer (like frolic, which is also low in protein) gives him the runs.  we have a kong which we play hide and seek with - and hes very good, i even hide it in the sideboard and he sniffs it out!  i am careful what i put in it, cheese once a day (because of the protein), but mainly bread (he prefers french stick - who doesnt!).

the problem with training is finding the right class thats not too far away, like i say, most want him to go to grumpy and growlers first, but i cant advocate that.  i do restrict his access to the lounge, but its difficult when im in and out of there most of the time, mainly washing and the children are usually in there on the pc, watchin tv etc.  i feel like shep has taken over my house, but im hopeful that this stage cant last forever. 

Okay, Don't put him in the cage when he goes into a frenzy - put him in there BEFORE it happens. Don't chase him with stuff he shouldn't have. Make sure he cannot get them or teach him to retrieve and give them to you.  Try clicker training but make sure you read a good clicker book or guide first.  Pack leader training is not always appropriate.  Most of my dogs are rescue collies and have had their fair share of problems which I have either managed to  overcome or learnt to live with.  They eat before me, sleep on the bed, occupy the furniture etc etc.  I do control the food and toys and their access to the lounge but I don't ignore them if they want a fuss and I can fit three collies on one lap.   Dogs don't actually need to be treated as lower ranking than us.  We are humans and they are dogs.  It causes conflict.  This is a good article to read.  www.dog-dominance.co.uk. Off to bed now if there is any room left for me. :D

Sally

sally,
just wondering what you think about anti barking collars, i know about the nasty ones, but the local pet shop suggested aboistop or abs, they release citronella to stop him when he starts barking.  are these ok to use in the short term?  they are expensive, but i feel desperate enough to earn some respite until we can begin to turn this problem around.

I don't like any form of punishment or aversion but if all else fails than you could try an aboistop if the barking is the cause of the problem.