Having read so many posts from new puppy/young dog owners asking for help about behaviour of their dogs I am astounded

What exactly do they expect an 6-12 week old puppy to ba a fully trained dog ?

House trained, obedient & well behaved it seems to me

I personally expect a puppy to be just that a puppy, naughty disobedient & downright bolshy at times

Over the first few weeks parameters at set as there are in the wild the puppy learns what is & is not alllowed & as a comsequence learns it's place in the order of my"pack"usually the bottom place

I have older dogs who tolerate just so much before correction & the same goes for me. I do not advocate physical punishment other than a light scruff on the neck it the behaviour is totally out of order but I stress I have not used this for my small dogs & usually only once with an 5 month old GSD many years ago

Why do people expect there dogs to be house trained in days, lead trained without any formal training & not to dive on people in greeting without any training ?

I have never had any problems even with my Beardies & boy were they naughty puppies

My current cavaliers include two of the naughtiest I have ever had, but they are also two of the most intelligent dogs I have ever had & play up others far more than me & when I expect them to perform(ie in the show ring)they do

I've never had to resort to the current fad of behaviourists(even though Roger M is a friend of mine)this includes having maltreated rescues in my pack

So what expectations do you have of your young dog ?(or bitch as the case maybe)

Nice post, Moonmaiden!

What I expect from my dog is - a dog! Not a furry child - a dog. One that does dog things! (Or in my case, 4 that do dog things!)
:)

What I expect (well not expect would like) is to be loved as much as I love him, to hell with puddles and those funny little quirks that he has when he decides he'd rather do something else than what I ask him :-)

Nickie.

Well said Moonmaiden, although we must remember that some of these posters are quite probably first time owners. 

Obi is now coming up for 15 weeks old, and is my first Cattle Dog, he has been a bit of an eye opener, because of his intelligence and canniness.  He is not fully toiley trained, despite using tried and tested methods, is this a problem, No, we just get through a lot of kitchen paper and Odourfree!!! :D

He hasn't been a bad biter, and learnt very quickly, through consistent training, that nipping is unacceptable (he was put in the downstairs loo for a minute on his own, only downside of that is that whenever one of us wants to go in there, he cried when we shut the door, he must worry we are trapped!! :D

At his training class he is easily one of the cleverest puppies there, why?, well partly due to the fact that he is a very intelligent dog (not biased at all here :)), but also because we train him a few times a day, every day, and do not expect him to remember next week what he was taught this week without a few reminders in between!

Anyway, I hope more people add to this post, it could prove to be of more use to new posters than a lot of the individual posts put together

Hayley

Me and Glazby have learned together.  Glazby has learned that he can generally get away with most things if we looks at me with adoring butter-wouldn't-melt-eyes and I've learned not to leave food out, not to leave my mobile in easy reach, not to leave any cups on the table when I go out, not to leave the waste paper bin in the living room full at any time, not to shut him in one room when I go out but to give him the run of the house, not to try and keep him off the sofa....the list goes on!!

At the end of the day, you should know what your letting yourself in for when you get a dog and as long as you go into it with your eyes WIDE open then you shouldn't have a problem!!

I had a lovely cream sofa once.....

What would I expect from a puppy?

Puddles, poos, anything that I've been careless and silly enough to leave available chewed and ruined, to be nipped and mouthed till I bleed, to never have a lie-in, even at the weekend. For the garden to be ruined, and the plants destroyed. To put on a clean outfit and immediately get muddy footprints on it. To be worried to a frazzle every time she's off-colour. To have exhausted arms carrying her everywhere to socialise her before she can walk on the ground. To drive miles every week to the nearest training classes. To spend a fortune on equipment. When she's older, to discover that her 'holidays' cost more than mine. To tear my hair out in frustration. To cry with disappointment when it all apears to be a complete disaster.

But in the end I'll have a warm snuggly friend who thinks I'm great, even when I'm feeling dreadful and look worse. A friend who is happy to be wherever I am. A pal.

The problem is so many people get puppies without realising what a handful they can be.

You have to be a REAL doogie lover to put up with a puppy.

Its bl@@dy hard work.

Well said Moonmaiden, you express why some of us get so frustrated by some of the posts we read. The fact that the poster is a first time owner is, IMO, no excuse, would you buy double glazing or a car without doing some research, no you would ring round till the phone was hot, so why do people buy a puppy without researching what is value for money and if the product matches their requirements.

I think first timers might have some excuse if they dont know anyone whos had a puppy themselves.

I did a lot of research and none of the books come across with exactly how hard it is.

I think there should be a book called

Not ready for a baby!! Not ready for a puppy then!

The only thing I really expected was a puppy with his life ahead of him.  I did expect that he would be housetrained one day, but was surprised how quickly he caught on.  I always thought obedience training would be an ongoing thing anyway.  Any problems I've had can usually be traced back to me doing the wrong thing (as an inexperienced first timer) and I've been really lucky that he's been so forgiving the of mistakes I've made!  To be honest, he's constantly exceeded my expectations.  I'm now going through the teenage stage so keep telling myself the same thing as with my own kids. 'Some things will happen which are normal and acceptable, some things will happen which are normal but unacceptable - growing up is about learning the difference'.  I'll let you know how I got on in a year or two!  And, thank goodness for Champdogs - it's been a great help!
Regards,Jenny

Well said ! :)
A lot of commitment is needed and as they say patience is a virtue!! (Did i spell that right ;) )

Thats all very well,but at least these people are trying to find help & learn! good on them for asking!

michelled - I completely agree with you.  I'm new to this site and I think its brilliant that novices like myself get the chance to "ask the experts". 

I knew what to expect when I got Glazby but that doesn't mean that I know all the answers and thats where CD comes into play!!

i think its a brilliant site! different opinions on all subjects are good! i just hope that "novices " arent put off asking questions Because its the dogs that will suffer!

Hmmmm

My first dog, a Dalmatian, was  a bit of a star really. He was housetrained quickly and I had talked to a lot of breeders and breed folk who told me what to expect - I still didn't appreciate quite what hard work a puppy could be, as our family dogs had always been older. However, I can understand why "Joe Public" might not be so aware...if, for example, they don't choose a breed which has such a strong "support network", they don't approach a breed club for advice, they don't have internet access, and they buy from a less than reputable breeder.... then, I believe, they are victims of circumstance as opposed to being ignorant.

Nearly every household in the UK has a tv, and you have to get a license for that. Nearly every household has a mobile, and you have to be credit checked or pay in advance for that, you can go and get a Phone Trainer to help, and swap in your old model if it doesn't work. Most households have a car and you have to insure it, be responsible, learn to drive and there are countless programms on cars.... Lots of people have DOGS, but you don't need a license, there is no school education on dogs, its optional to go to training and its totally unsupervised. Surely there should be more generic public information out there that is accessable by everyone?

Oh I dont' think anyone should be put off - I certainly won't be!!  Everytime I have a new calamity I'm straight onto CD!!

Everyone has been really helpful and kind and I hope that oneday I might be experienced enough to offer my own advice!!

Anyway, I'm off home now to see my monster - he's always standing up on the sofa with his nose pressed against the window looking out for me!!

I think if all of us who have owned several dogs over the years look back to our first puppy experience we would have all done it differently.  I don't think we can blame the first time owner, we all have to learn from different experiences in life.

There is certainly more information about these days, but you do need to know where to look.  Without the support from your breeder it is very difficult to find the correct help.  What seems like a small problem to us, possibly seems like a huge obstacle to get over, to the new owner.

Boards like this are invaluable to people like this, even if we can only reassure them they are not alone.  Yes, they do often expect too much from a young puppy, but it is only experience which tells you that.  Next time around they won't expect so much. 

Sandra

I have to agree with Sandrah.  I am a first time puppy owner and find this board invaluable, i realise I don't always get things right.  I waited twenty years for this puppy, I wanted to be at home and to give him my full attention and try and do the best I could to bring him up to be a calm, well behaved, happy, very much loved dog.  I knew it wasn't going to be easy, I read all the books before he arrived, but sometimes I do need reassurance from CD experts that what is happening is "normal" and just another puppy stage we have to go through.

At the moment I am learning as much as my pup is learning.  Experience is much better than reading a text book. 

Jax

How can we expect people to undergo a license test for a dog when they can have children without????

<<< How can we expect people to undergo a license test for a dog when they can have children without????  >>>

Maybe that should be licenced too ;) Would certainly solve a few problems.

Moonmaiden!!!!!!!!        Very well put i agree!!!!!!

hi

if people did'nt ask then there would be no point in champdogs, ask away thats what i say! everyone was a first time owner to begin with even you moonmaiden!

regards
jojo

I agree with both sides of this argument - and it's not like me to sit on the fence :D

I was expecting Dizzy to be hard work and she is (oh boy is she) I don't mind as she's still such a baby but some days I have to count to ten and remind myself that it will get easier.

I've had 3 kids and each time it surprised me how much labour hurts and how much work a new baby is Now I don't think I'm particularly stupid or my memory is that bad but things do fade with time ;)

But Imagine it's your first dog, let alone pup. Imagine you don't have the experience of raising kids. Imagine that you've read books on your breed and The Perfect Puppy from cover to cover -  They all make it sound so simple and straightforward when it isn't. You do everything right but the pup still doesn't seem to have a clue. Surely it's the ones who care enough to find the forum and ask their 'daft' questions who are doing the right thing? When the alternative option is chain them up outside or give them to a rescue, I'd say lets be patient and answer the questions. (especially since I've probably asked a few in my time :rolleyes)

I accidently posted this twice sorry! The next one is what I was gonna say

I'm a first time puppy owner and even though I never thought it would be easy it has certainly been different from what I did expect. For one thing I was told that my pup was paper trained when I took her home but she has never once gone on paper since I got her home. (She is now on the way to being trained outside and doing well). But my point is, you cant expect people to know what they're doing when their breeder and other dog owner friends make it look and sound easy!
Good job she's gorgeous :-)

Before I had my first dog a GSD as a very young person(aged 8 ! & I saved up for her myself) my parents insisted that I attend a local GSD club, read up about the breed & have a go at training adult dogs at the club. We had a GSD which my father's wife trained & I had no involvement with

I did this for a year & when the trainers were satisfied with my training abilities I was allowed to look for a puppy & got a full german pedigree bitch from Brittas lines

I raised & trained her as I raise & train my puppies now & I have never ever had a puppy that I needed to get outside help with

My point is now a lot(not most or all)of people buy without research & then have problems

If only they researched, visited & contacted experienced people via any means beforehand including asking questions on forums like this & then looked for their puppy a lot of heartache would be saved. Maybe then fiirst time owners would have reasonable expectations of their puppy

It is the same about breeding all it takes to be a breeder is have a fertile bitch & access to a fertile dog-no knowledge planning etc. What it takes to be a good breeder is a totally different matter

I would wish for people to be licenced to own dogs(not the dogs themselves)& to be a breeder too. Just like driving a car no licence no driving QED. Yes it would involve tests but it would be in the perfect world & sadly we will never have that

Nice to see a non aggressive thread though :D

It just goes to show we are all capable of a civil adult debate, long may it continue :D 

Hi Moonmaiden, my little Stinkfoot aged 9 is saving up for her first dog as you know, so she was well impressed that you had your first puppy at 8 years old. :) Having done my research, looked after other peoples dogs and insisted kids did time with all the dog related chores, read the books and gone to classes, its still different when youre committed to your dog. I was floored by how emotionally tied we became so quickly and found an outsiders input very helpful at the "Oh God why did I bring him home, Im USELESS!" stage. Confidence has come with experience and I envy folk like you who were brought up with dogs. ( I have the recessive stockman gene from my grandfather).

Anyway, I expect my young dog to make mistakes and occasionally to think he knows better than me, to astonish me with his intelligence, willingness to learn and love, forgiveness of my shortcomings, to have loads of fun with us and to discover new things every day. Hes doing great. :D

I have slighty different expectations. I have 4 children aged 9,5,4,2 and a 9 week old lab. The labs training is coming on really well. She can sit when told, has stopped snatching food, will come when called and is doing really really well with her paper training, havent had an accident in 2 days (unless my bedroom door is left open then she poo's under my bed).

The kids training isnt coming on to well. The older 2 want to rough play with her and the younger 2 want to just sit and hug her. Buffy (the dog) the understand the difference, so what happens is as soon as the kids get up/come in she goes mad. This week we have had 2 ripped school uniforms (they were still on my son at the time), my 5 year olds teacher called me in to find out why his whole body was covered in scratchs (he lays on the floor and lets her use him as a chew) and she has ripped a nappy off the baby.

So my expectations are this...that my kids will calm down.

Debbie

PS. Buffy and my youngest son also have arguments over food and toys, which often ends in tears...he puts his finger in her mouth (and whether she bites him or not) he will come running over to me saying "Buzzy bited me". Oh yeah and i also caught him trying to chew her bone the other day.

I could go on forever the list is endless.

Hi Debbie, this rings a bell:D mine were 14,11,8 and 5 when Morse arrived and took a few months to train. I gave them all jobs to do for Morse like filling his water dish or brushing him for smalller people and short walks for bigger people ( on lead!). The small ones still get into bed with him but now the novelty has worn off they are better at sticking to limits. I found they modelled what I did and learned play rules quickly by observation. It will calm down, honest. You could always crate the kids when they go OTT :D

wishfairy, I love you and I want to have your babies! We have our first dog - we have no experience of raising kids - we read the books cover to cover and we THINK we're doing the right things with Hector (now 14 weeks) but the reading/asking around does not/cannot prepare you for what it's really like! There were times when we felt we couldn't cope, but Champ Dogs (and a bit of just 'getting used to it') has saved our sanity by realising that loads of people have problems like we had. Friends say it's just like that having kids too...

ROFL!

***it's just like that having kids too... ***

This morning I asked my husband if he was really attached to our 2 year old son who has turned into an wee monster this week ;)

He said I wasn't allowed to put him on ebay so I guess it's stick to the training :rolleyes:

Your post put it so much better than mine well done. :D

I read all the books and followed all the instructions HA Ha HA! what a joke they were like fairy tales, made it all sound so simple.

I think my problem was that I gre up with a dog so thought I knew everything, what I didnt realise is the differnece between a puppy and a dog (and no I dont mean size difference but work involved) and how different it is when your parents are there.

If I wanted to go out when I was at home I didnt have to consider the dog, my parents were at home, they'd walk him, if I had a hangover it didnt matter they'd walk him, if I wasnt feeling well they'd walk him.

Now I have a young lab who wakes me up at 5.30 every morning, rain or shine.
THe reality is a lot different to the theory.

Let see.  What do I expect of MYSELF when I get a puppy.  To laugh & cry, to feel loved & frustrated, to feel elation at accomplishments & a little disappointed at fall backs, to wonder if puppyhood ever ends and then wish sometimes to have the rolly polly puppy back and to look tottally silly while training he to go potty and wonder if I will be comitted.

Opps wait this was about what i should expected from a very young puppy who hasn't been formally trained yet.  Am I supose to expect something??  Hmmmm.  I will have to think on that one.  Do kisses till my face is sopping wet count?

My 5 mth old BC is my third puppy (losing the other two at 15 yrs and 14 yrs).  However, I made the mistake of reading too much on the internet written by behaviourists.  I was worried I was allowing Rose to be too dominant - don't allow her to go through doors before you, she mustn't bite your hands, she must remain on the floor not on the sofa, she must be fed after the rest of the family, don't play tug of war with her, etc etc.  I started to worry about everything and anything. Also, the advice out there can be very contradictory, for the same problem.  I kept saying to my husband, I don't remember having all these problems with the other two puppies .  Actually, I think the difference was, I researched what breed fitted in with our lifestyle, and that was it really. I just used common sense and lots of love when raising the puppies and it all just fell in to place.  They were both very well behaved pets, who were well adjusted, affectionate, and much loved members of our family.  And do you know, I am sure they went through the door before me!!

I'm a new puppy owner and don't expect miracles, I went to my first ringcraft class two weeks ago and explained to the guy there we are learning together as I haven't a clue and he hasn't either, most people are more than helpful.  I've read I don't know how many books surfed the net into the early hours many a night but nothing will prepare you for your first puppy until you get him/her.  I cannot imagine life without Dicksy now and often look at him and fill up and just want to squeeze him, even when chewing yet another Polly Pocket's hand off!  Daughter knew he would do this if toys left on floor and accepts this, house has been tidier since getting him everything is at least up out the way.

As a 6th dog owner (and 5th puppy), I was still unprepared for the latest GSD pup. I truly had forgotten how hard it is. I'm older, so I've got less energy than the last time (10 years ago), probably more patience, but even that was stretched to the limit. So I really sympathise with the new puppy owner, no matter what you read, hear, see or research - you're in for a shock!

Champdogs is great for all dog owners. I often read the puppy posts just to quietly reassure myself that Yes, everything I was (and am) going through was normal!

Kat

it is true that once your pup is older and out of the 'kevin' stage then you forget the tougher times. My older dog taz, was a very quick learner. When i got bailey now 13 weeks, i kept thinking taz was never this 'bad'. Why do i loose my rag sometimes and shout at taz, when he's so well behaved!!! and then on further thought i recall, taz was just as 'bad'. But its not naughtiness or being bad, its growing up and learning. Babies have teething rings, pups use your hands :P
bailey is a little more stubborn than i remember taz being, and i am taking him to training classes, which i didn't need for taz because he caught on quickly. However having 2 i need bailey to listen to me sooner rather than later :P
If a pup is left alone, in a room for a length of time and becomes board he will become distructive. (if a child is not given a colouring book to coincide with the crayons, your walls become colourfull!!! :)
Puppies need to be taught right from wrong, from an early age.
My partners mother had a staffy pup, he was the usual pup :)  but being a similar age to taz, only taz had been taught right from wrong by myself, and patch (her dog) had been left to it's own devices - so to speak, because they behaved so different she labelled them as taz is a good boy patch is naughty1 why can't patch be like taz - he just won't listen to me. consequently she no longer has patch, because she couldn't cope with him - although still to this day she says thatit was because he was a naughty dog!!
she simply wasn't prepared for owning a puppy, although she had owned dogs before - some breeds are harder than others - which is why research is important first! :)
owning a pup is much like having a child, all the babysitting in the world cannot prepare you for having your own!! You never get what you expect - but it gets better with time and perciverance xxxx