i have a german shepherd bitch, now 8 weeks old, i got her when she was 6 weeks old and weaned on solids..
as soon as i brought her home i started her on pedigree chum puppy food and pedigree chum small bite mixer biscuts.
she was weaned on a biscut meal mixed with water till it swelled,,,,i dont like this so i change her food.
i have taken her to the vet and she has been past good in health, she had diahorea at first but i put her on chicken+rice and boiled fish+rice then after a few days re introduced the ped chum... this seems to have worked but my god her wind stinks???any advice please

I would take her off that food never found it much cop why not put her on Naturediet which is alot better for her and just as easy to feed most big pet stores stock it.

I agree. I wouldn't touch pedigree with a barge pole.  Naturediet is much better.

Sally

GSDs can realy suffer with their tums, Chum is terrible for causing runs. I never give my GSD anything but his everday food, fear of runs but my Labs can eat anything.
I am about to find out more about Naturediet, have heard so many good reports.
Regards Debbie

Funny that, when I had GSD's tinned Chappie was the only food that did not cause stomach upset. Mind you I suppose the food may have changed.

Just looked at web site for ND, now know what it is but what do you mix it with, cos' would I be right in thinking that they are relatively small trays. It would surely cost a fortune unless you only have one dog??

I mix naturediet with Wafcol gluten free chicken& rice complete for 9yr old westie. 5month rough collie gets it mixed with skinners puppy complete and thet both love it

Jean

You don't have to mix it with anything but I do occasionally give mine a handful of biscuits as well- either complete or a mixer but mostly feed it on it's own.  I try not to think about how much it costs me to feed my dogs but it isn't anymore expensive than other good complete foods.  My dogs have between 1 (old collie) and 2 (active collies and afghan) packs each a day.

Sally

Just my opinion -- as all the replys so far have been liking ND - I'll give my opinion of it.
I think its ok as a maintenance diet for an adult dog, but I wouldn't rear a pup on it.
:)

I dont use Nd all the time with my twos's complete i do the rounds with mince,egg, stew, chicken or fish in fact the collie is becoming fussy I still have puppy on 3 meals, 2meat & half a can of rice pudding with a raw egg mixed in

Jean

Chappie tins of meat are good as well and they come in big tins so why not try that with terrier meal.

I tht this ND was perhaps a preffered 'complete'  available in 15kg bags but alas....OK for one dog.  I think if I fed this to my Labs on its own they would not be satisfied.
Have always been a fan of Chappie and am pleased to hear many vets recommend it rather than Science Plan. I think if we ever did lose 'tripe' I would go for Chappie & terrier and give raw chicken wings too.
thx everyone. Debbie :)

I had the same prob with my GSD that is now 6yr, bought her home fed her on ped chum and it came out like water every time. Changed her to a complete diet and she was fine but then developed an allergy to meat protein. I now feed her on Burns, fish and brown rice. I must say for a fussey eater it is a hit as the get fed a bit less than an y othere complete diet they also poo less as the food is absorbed properly, it is also hypoallergenic and NOT tested on animals unlike a lot of other well known branded complete foods.
www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk,
This is there puppy food detail

For pups, growing dogs, pregnant and nursing bitches 
Burns Mini Bites has been developed for all Puppies from Weaning, and Small Breed Adults. It is well established that high intake of protein and fat during puppyhood leads to health problems in the adult; for example obesity and skeletal disorders, especially hip dysplasia. Rapid growth can produce heavy muscle mass which puts undue strain on immature bones. It is naturally preserved and contains no wheat, Soya, beef or dairy products, added colourings, artificial flavourings or preservatives, and no genetically modified ingredients.
We guarantee that no battery raised chicken are used in our products, and that the chicken is free of antibiotics or growth hormones.

Analysis: Protein 21%, Oil 11%, Fibre 2%
Contains: Brown rice, chicken, oats, peas, sunflower oil, chicken oil, ocean fish, seaweed, minerals and vitamins.

Cordelia

Snoopy - out of interest, why not?

:)

I think ND is bland & I don't think it has enough nutrients especially protein for a growing pup.
I think of it as a glorified type of Chappie & I wouldn't feed any dog on chappie (perhaps ok for a maintenance diet for an older dog) But I would never rear a pup on chappie. It is a bland fish & rice based diet.(or chicken & rice)
Great as a light diet for diarrhoea for a few days, but that's all.

This is just my personal opinion.

Lots of people obviously like ND & Chappie so I guess it's all down to personal preference. & if some people have had good results with chappie & or ND then, that's great.

Hi Snoopy

I actually did a lot of research on dog food before I got my pup (conspiracy theorist that I am), and found that Nature Diet is one of the best quality foods on the market. The meat (chicken, lamb etc) is human grade. Very importantly, the food's protein source is eminently digestible, and actually higher than that in typical 'large breed puppy' feeds such as Eukanuba. It contains natural ground bone, in addition to brown rice and vegetables. It also contains a broad spectrum of vitamins, minerals and supplements (such as glucosamine) tailored according to the meal type - ie, puppy, senior etc. It is the only complete diet on the market (apart from Nature's Menu, which has annoying packaging) which does not bulk out its product with indigestible protein or process it to such a degree it alters its structure. It also does not contain any artificial additives. It is in a completely different league to something like Chappie, which basically just contains carcinogenic waste products made palatable with flavour enhancers. I'd rather eat Chappie than let Cam at it (well, on reflection ... :D   )

Hope this is helpful

Jo :)

Interesting, thanks Jo. I know a lot of adult dogs on ND, but never seen a pup reared on it.
Please don't eat chappie - your breath will stink of fish!

snoopy. x :)

Ok - I can't argue with that :D

Jo :)

Hi Jo, I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, and Chappie seems to be taking a bit of a bashing here; all I can say is that my Vet said it was one of , if not the best tinned food you can give your dog. It has been brilliant in encouraging my old girl to eat, if I add a spoon or two to her complete food.

If it agrees with your dog, great, they are all different after all :)

liberty

Just to keep a balance, I have fed my lot on Chappie for years (both tinned and dry complete) and the vet is very impressed with their condition. And all the ones that I have shown have qualified for Crufts from large classes. It's not a bad food!
:)

Snoopy,

ND have a puppy variety and a breeder's program.  I expect lots of puppies have been raised on ND.

Stacey

Naturediet has meat and veg and rice therefore there is no need to add anything; it is quite dense, 400gm weight and so at around 52 - 57p per packet does not seem expensive to me for a large dog.

told my vet 2 days after i brought my gs home that i changed her diet to the ped chum puppy food and small bite mixer biscuts,and that she had diahorea.
I took her to him for a medical and he past her with flying colours.
The vet wormed her and she gets re wormed every two weeks by the vet and he told me that a puppy needs as many vitamins to help with growth and they must be balanced out, he agreed to keep her on the pedigree chum puppy food with mixer biscuts as he personally preferred pedigree and said in his personal and professional opinion this was the best nutrition for a puppy of any breed.
For a couple of days however, take her off pedigree and feed her only boiled fish and rice or chicken and rice then introduce slowly the chum..
I have had my sheba for 3 weeks now, she is now 8 and a half weeks old and growing quickly, her weight has increased and her coat very shiny. the diahorea has stopped and she has 3 small meals a day a variety of pedigree chum puppy food and mixer biscuts.
THE BAD WIND CONTINUES, but im happy to cope with that as long as sheba continues to have solid pooh and eats and drinks well;;;

It might be worth asking your vet if they have studied dog nutrition in any depth; what is covered on nutrition during their studies is very very small.

I would be concerned if my dog had a lot of wind because I would want to know what produces the gas, especially with a breed prone to bloat/torsion.

But that is just my personal point of view.

sorry, i should have highlighted the fact that my gs, has stopped with the diahorea and the wind problem is not a great problem, ie she passes wind seldom but when she does it stinks bad...maybe i overreacted at this wind problem as afterall us humans sometins stink.
thanks for your views though and the vet i have is amoungst a large group of vets, parctise nurses nutritionalists, psysiotherapists, behavioral expert, and the rest of the gangs to do with all breeds of animals including exotic.

So which dog foods are the best (I have heard lots about Eukanuba, Diet Science, Bil&Jack, and everyone tells me different opinion about different brand), and how can you know that what is written on the package is really there. My concern is that the companies who make dog food basically use all kinds of not needed leftovers from foods people did not eat or even ground into powder bones, including some scent additives to smell good for dogs, add some vitamins, some bone flour and bread flour and pack into little pieces. How can you preserve all the vitamins the natural fresh made food has in a dried, crunchy little piece? Unless I see myself how they make the dog food I will believe that their food is as good as fresh made from real products. Has any one gone to the factory where they make dog food and seen the process of making dog food?

A lot of breeders and owners feel as you do and want to fed more naturally.  In the past most people and breeeders fed a wholmeal biscuit and fresh meat and offal with a vitamin supplement, but of course this is not as convienient as the complete feeds and take more time and knowledge.

If you really would prefer to feed a home madfe diet this can be done, but it is vital to do some research, and also be able to source and store the raw ingredients in your home.  The avergae pet owner therefore relies on the guesswork being removed by feeding a commercial complete diet or commercial tinned jeat asnd cereal with a mixer, though I beleive that in USA the dry food is fed even more than in UK.

There are writers such as Ina Billinghurst, and Tom Lonsdale, and there is the Pitcairn diet.  Books on the subject can be found by doing a search on Google, and there are also web groups.  BARF is an Acronym used by many.  It means Bones And Raw Food, or Biologically Appropriate Raw Food.

Hee hee,

That is the sort of thinking that has lead those of us who feed a raw diet to do so!

Anyways, NOT going to turn this into a BARF thread, there are LOADS  of them on here, do a search for BARF and raw diets.

Put simply, the most expensive diets ive seen, ie Hills, Eukanuba etc, have really nice packaging, loads of extra added stuff.....but are still made from cr*p.

You are right to question the vitamin/mineral content......because they have to last a long time on the shelf, i believe the content stated on the packet must refer to the vit/min content on the day before the food expires....so a brand new bag of SuperDog (or wotever) compared to one the day before it goes past its sell by date would have different mineral/vitamin/protein contents......thats a scary thought.

There are good complete diets out there, Nature Diet is one, Burns is another, also ive heard good things about Wafcol.

Personally, even if Hills or Eukanuba paid me, i still wouldnt feed it to my dogs!

Em

Alina, which is the best food? Well think the answer to that is the food that suits you and your dog. Not everyone feels able to feed raw, they either can't source a supply of raw meat they feel happy with or like me, do not feel competent to feed only raw food. Some people feed half raw and half complete, some a quality complete food and table scraps and other feed just complete, just wet complete or tinned and mixer.

I feed Burns along with any table scrapes or preparation waste, including things like the oil from tins of tuna. Cabbage leaf stalks and cores & carrots act as treats along with the treat cake I make myself. What you feed depends on what you can get and what suits your life style, if what you feed, your dog enjoys and is doing well with then I think you are doing OK and so will be your dog.

Food fads come and go, but most dogs seem to manage to thrive, I sometimes think despite our efforts. So by all means be open minded but when you find something that suits you and your dog, feed it and do not be put off too much by the opinions of others.

OK, for me it is more logical to make our own food for my dog (need some help on that, from people who share my opinion, what do you guys make?). Of course there is another question. What about minerlas and vitamins. Does home made dog food have all of these? Or I still have to mix some of the dried commercial food pieces into food I make for my dog? I have noticed that my dog likes home made food better than commercial. Is it because it tastes better or because my dog is already spoiled? Another question, if I do chose to make my own food for my dog what can I make? So far I have boiled chicken and beef, and my dog did like both, including dry food moistened with the broth form meat. I am not sure about raw meat though. I have bought this huge chunk of beef on the bone, and not sure whether I should pour boiling water over it or give it to my dog as is? My dog likes all kinds of veggies (yellow/red peppers, cabbage, carrots, beets) and fruits (most of the time apples and pears), but she is still a puppy and probably eats anything I give her. Than why do some vets tell us not to feed home made foods because they are not good for the health of our dogs? Is it because they try to advertise some particular brand? Any advice on making good food home made food for a dog would be appreciated. :)

Alina D.

There is a book by Kmythe Schultz that you should be able to get, has ben recomended as an easy to understand guide to Natuaral Feeding.  Pitcairn's book I beleive has recipes, some of them for cooked meals.

Put natural feeding for dogs in a search engine and see where that takes you.

Vets have very little trainb ing in nutriotion for dog.  In the UK I was told it was a day and a half, and the talk was given by one of the main dog food manufacturers.

A home made diet can be unhealthy, as it can be for us, if the right nutritional balance is not fed.  It takes a bit of research to learn what the dietary requiremebnts of a dog are.

For example a dog fed only cooked or raw meat would soon become ill, as this is not a blanced diet.  if we did the same we too would become ill.

Never felt confident to make up my dogs diet myself, most people seem to feed raw meat and par cooked veg and I am sure you need to add other things but I don't know in what quantities, expect it depends on if the meat you serve, if it still has bone and feather/fur attached or not. I found it difficult to source meat I trusted and was not at all confident that I was getting it right as the dogs seemed to loose condition, I was told to feed some sort of seaweed powder as a supplement, may be that was not right.

Lots of people do feed this way but think you will need to read up or may be someone will come on and agree to talk you through it. Some people feed half raw and half commercial and may be till you understand the nutritional requirements of a dog may be the best way to go.

Hi Alina, I think it is great that you are looking into what you can give your dog as an alternative to commercial food; doing the research will help you make up your mind whether feeding raw and/or home made is the right decision for you and your dog.

As in everything it is wise to do a lot of reading, talk to experienced people and perhaps join a few specialist forums on the web so that you are making and INFORMED choice rather than jumping in with both feet and then firefighting mistakes.

First of all let me reassure you that you do not need a degree in nutrition or science to adequately feed your dogs.  People managed to keep their dogs in excellent health for hundreds of years before the advent of commercial diets :D  And during that time the majority of dogs were tools, there to fulfil a function, if they did not perform they were discarded!  Gundogs, sheepdogs, hounds etc etc worked hard on home made diets.

I would recommend the following books in order of helpfulness:

Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kmythy Schulze
The Barf Diet by Ian Billingshurst
Give your Dog a Bone by IB
Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lonsdale

IB also does a very good book on feeding bitches and raising pups called Grow your pups with Bones

For cooked diets look at the Dr Pitcairn book which also has a lot of good health advice.

All these books are easily available in the UK via Amazon, Crosskeys etc.

A yahoo site called Britbarf is excellent for help; this is UK based, there are 2 excellent US sites called K9nutrition and Rawfeeding.  You will find on these sites extremely knowledgeable people with a great deal of scientific knowledge to boot :D

To answer some of your questions.

A proper, varied raw/home made diet will contain all the minerals/vitamins required for a dog.  These are ADDED to commercial foods as they are destroyed during manufacture.

Most dogs IME vastly prefer a raw/home made diet as it tastes a lot better.  I know I like to eat a varied diet with fresh foods rather than a bowl of muesli 2/3 times a day for the rest of my life :D

Feeding your dog a species appropriate diet is not "spoiling" it any more than feeding yourself or your family would be "spoiled" by providing them with fresh home cooked meals rather than a processed freezer to microwave dish!

It is not necessary to cook any food that you feed your dog.  Cooking does change the bioavailability of some nutrients and can destroy some.  YOU MUST NEVER FEED COOKED BONES. Raw bones are fine.

Vegetables and fruits will pass through the dog as roughage unless they are frozen/pulped.  Raw veggies should not make up more than 10% of the total diet maximum.  Onions should never be fed at all. 

Vets have little or no nutritional knowledge unless they study it as a specialty.  There is a reason why their reception areas are filled with a particular product!

Hope this helps a bit.

Just twigged you are in the US, then the best book for you (apart from Kmythy Schulze who is US) would be Switching to Raw by Sue Johnson.  It is a very simple book and straighforward and available from her website which is Switching to Raw!

HTH

Tohme,

Pitcairn's diet is not a cooked food diet. In most of his recipes only the grains are cooked, the meat is always raw.

Stacey

You are right he does feed raw meat with soaked/cooked grains; although he does have recipe for dog meatloaf which can be cooked and meaty biscuits which are also cooked. :D