Hello,

Just wondering if anyone can help with nay info?

For the last couple of years I've been toying with the idea of a kitten, as I like my puppies to be used to cats & I've had cats long before I ever had a dog.   All of which have been beautiful moggies.   Sometimes I hear of people buying pedigree x-breds or moggie x pedigree (Usually accidental), where do you find out about these x-breeds or if anyone knows of a good "accident" I would be interested!  I'm in no rush, I'd rather wait for something I really liked but if anyone knows of  any in the future months/year, I'd like to hear about them.  Thanks.

I can't have cats near me as they really make me sneeze but love them all the same.

Was just saying to hubby the other day that I could maybe only name 2 -3 pedigree breeds of cat and wandered how many there were?

Good luck in your search :D

The Devon Rex is a hypo alergenic breed that does not shed, Not sure about the cornesh rex never really looked into them since my friend breeds the Devon Rex....Another one I really fancy is the Sphynx they are the hairless breed. Come to think of it I think all 3 of them are good for people with alergies to cats.

I laugh every time I see a pic of the baldy ones and wander if they would need a wee coat? I'd love one, but if I was being honest it would be just for 'freak' value so I think I stick to admiring other peoples fom afar :)

There are a few websites, that advertise kittens for sale & there are always pedigree crosses on them, they often put a picture on threre too.
To be honest, you can see some are pedigree crosses, but I can't help thinking that some are just moggies at a ridiculous price? There are loads & I find it hard to believe that all these people are crossing them.

Do you want me to PM the website adds?

Please Snoopy, that would be great, I'm not definite yet but it's always nice to know whats available!

I love Burmillas & Tonkinese and a x-bred one of those would be wonderful!

have pm'd you x

hi Snoopy could you pm me the address to as i am now looking for a kitten

thank you

have PM'd the addresses with kitties for sale

Hi Christine try  http://www.pets4you.com  they have sections on pure bred moggies and cross pure breeds. They have a load on some quite unusual.

My kittens are Tonkinese x Moggy (which for insurance purposes classes them as moggies :) ) I got them from the diamond freeads, there are always loads of different crosses in there.  They are the best cats I have ever owned, they are just like little dogs they follow me everywhere and are soooo affectionate (a little too much when their purring keeps me awake at night :rolleyes: ) they have just finished their vaccinations and I let them out for the first time on Sunday - scary (for me not for them, and it was only for half an hour before I hurried them back in - just in case their little tootsies got cold :D )

Claire

Claire,

Is this a website?  Or a paper?  

Can you email me a photo of your kittens, I'd like to see Tonk crosses?   Thanks.  

Christine

Now this is interesting, x-bred /pedigree cats bought from the free ads are ok but dogs are not?? Surely there is no difference - the same conditions for breeding apply.  There are as many problems with cats not being bred right as there are for dogs and as many concerned breeders trying to do the best for their cats.  There is also a huge rescue problem with many more cats in rescue than can be found homes for, so why encourage these backstreet breeders?? :( the reasons they are crossing are just the same as for dogs - money, and the fact that often the pedigrees are endorsed against breeding often for very good reasons.  There is no reason why so many 'accidental' matings occur - bonafide breeders manage to keep their cats from unwanted matings and control their female cats heats with various methods.

Don't wish to cause an argument but wishing to avoid 'double standards' on an otherwise responsible board.

Regards
Dill

Ive never seen a problem with buying a puppy from the free-ads, as long as the breeder checks out ok where is the problem - all of my puppies since I can remember have come from there, I have no double standards.  The free-ads are the only place I could find a x-bred kitten, cat magazines only seem to advertise pedigrees, I didnt want a pedigree for the simple reason I wanted 2 kittens, which would have cost me around £700 - would you let £700 worth of cats roam free alone ????  i dont believe in keeping cats in which is why I got a X-breed.  The breeder of my kittens checked out ok I couldnt see a single problem with her, my kittens are healthy, lively and full of fun. The only other place I could have looked for kittens would have been on the net, this IMHO is just as bad as the free-ads.  The only reason I dont approve of the free-ads is because of their promotion of puppy farms but I have made my disaproval known to them about this.

Lily, its a yellow freeads paper similar to ad-mart.  Ill email you a photo of the kittens.

Claire :)

hi Claire

any chane you could also send my a pic of them Please

I have sent them :)

Dill, in reply to your post. I understand your point however I really don't think you can compare dog breeding to cat breeding, they are 2 different species with different needs. Of course they are equally entitled to be looked after in the best possible way,but I do feel the responibilities of homing a dog & cat are 2 different things altogether. Aspects to consider when homing a dog, - can the people bring the dog up to be a sociable & well behaved adult. Are they at home enough & can they provide enough stimulation & excercise for the dog they are taking on. Can they train the dog to be well behaved, understand who's boss & respect others? How many of these factors come into consideration with a cat? well, cats like to look after themselves & be independant, excercising & even washing & grooming themselves.(yes I know long haired cats need grooming)
Lets look at why some people don't buy a full pedigree cat, for a start all the ones I've ever seen come with a contract (yes this is responsible) but stating that the cat is an "indoor cat only" is a bit much in my opinion. So people who think it is wrong & unneccessary to keep a cat indoors or in a pen - are a bit stuck!
Now lets look into why so many cats & kittens in rescues centres - well maybe it's because of the control that the rescue homes want to put on the prospective rehomers. ie people with children under 5 can't usually take on a cat. Why? if children are brought up to respect animals, this shouldn't be a problem. Also if you live on or near a busy road? so how many potential cat owners does that rule out? Also i know of people who've been home checked & refused because they had 3 dogs who were excitable when the RSPCA employee arrived to do the home check - regardless of the fact that they already had 2 cats who the dogs got on great with - (we all know dogs get excited when visitors come). I think the rescue centres are not doing themelves any favours by putting all these restrictions on homes. Then what do all these people do? well they go & buy a kitten or a cat from elsewhere. & where do you go to buy a moggie? Well I think - apart from word of mouth -- the newspaper or a website are the only places you can look.

snoopy

Having looked at the prices of even x-breed kittens, I can tell you they are far from free!   Not that I feel the need to justify myself but my family and then later myself have owned over the years 7 cats, all rescued and all respective charities/foster homes given a donation bar one, who was rescued from a neighbour as the child was being cruel to the cat.

I would love a pedigree cat but really don't want to have the expense when I will neuter it at 6 months, so maybe it would be in a home that is more show/breeding orientated.  So a pedigree x-breed is something I'd like to contemplate.

Thank you to all those that answered with helpful suggestions.

Couldn't agree with you more snoopy.  I had all these problems and more - i've posted on here about it before, i've always had cats and/or dogs, and kids lol but was refused by the rspca for having kids under 5, ok if that's their rules but they could see i had a 6 yr old and a babe in a push chair and let my 6 yr old choose a kitten before refusing me - how cruel.  I was looking for some more kittens at the end of last year, and went on many of the cat/kitten websites, I actually wanted a pedigree cat - norwegian forest cat, and was willing to pay for one, i have pedigree dogs so why not a cat, i do think the contracts are unfair, none of my cats have ever been hurt and touch wood never will, but i would have to build a run or keep indoors, how cruel in my opinion, cats were born to roam, they like their freedom.  Anyways, in the end i did the unthinkable and got 2 kittens from a pet shop, only place i could get what i want for reasonable price. Moggies for moggy prices, some of these x breeds aren't, if you actually read the descriptions, x breed norwegian/moggie with moggy - makes it a moggy in my eyes not a £200 xbreed.

Nikki xx

jackieboy I agree, it seems that people who breed pedigree cats are very in control over their breeding lines. Which I understand, that is responsible, but if you were prepared to pay a lot of money for a pedigree cat, then surely it's up to you if you want to neuter or breed from the cat & up to you if you want to keep the cat in a pen or let her/him roam free. (& these decisions shouldn't be made for you by the breeder, after all the cat would be your pet - not theirs)
Personally I think cats should have the freedom they want.
I don't know what mischief my cats get up to when they're out & about, but that's the risk I take with owning cats.

Suprising how quickly they can get home when they're called for dinner.  :)
snoopy

Dill
you have posted what I thought

My own personally opinion since I live in the city I think if you own a cat either keep it in a pen-on a leash-or in the house...Nothing worse then having a cat digging up your garden.....There are way to many cats pts because of owners not watching them and keeping them safe...cats are very happy to be indoors and do just fine, I should no I use to have two that lived indoors. My one cat Whiskey was taught to play fetch (even find his ball), sit, lay, and also to shake a paw. I had to rehome them because my hubby was very alergic to them (I had the cats first), and I rehomed them to a farm. They promised to keep them indoors more so Whiskey then Tequila because he was more of a house cat and Tequila liked to hunt...Told them any problems let me no and I would take them back in a flash and found someone else to take them....Since their promises ment squak both my babies were dead within the year :( They were friends of my moms who said they wanted them and would keep them inside....I also had someone else who would of taken them and these people seemed very nice but not true to their words at all.:(

Here you can get kittens for free in the paper or for about $5-$20...no money really in breeding them crosses. You get the odd one that may say scottish x $250, or Simese x $100 ectect, but mostly they are very cheep....If in the pet store OMG for those crosses you are looking at $250-$500 around there :(

:( Dollface
Sorry about your rehomed cats
Our cat Noodles actually rehomed us
shes a sweet little thing - turned up on the doorstep one day and never went home
Shes very well behaved and never wants to go out ( Which i am glad about - wouldnt want her to get lost again )
Lel

Thank you :)

Glad your little one is happier indoors :)

You will find the idea of confining a cat to house only is not one common in the UK at all, and only really applies to some Pedigree cat owners, mainly to stop them from being stolen.

I have always wondered how on earht one would keep a cat in???  surely at the first open door or window and it would get out???  I have my backdoor open most of the year except for Deceber to February.  Also windows in the summer and to air the house with five dogs living in it.

I won't have a cat here as I live on a busy road and couldn't confine a cat to the house even if I wanted to.

Noodle genuinely isnt interested in going out.
The back door is left open for Gus to go outside but she sits on the step and thats as far as she goes for some reason ??

My mum's cat Demi has absolutely no interest in life outside at all and is very content being the fat, spoilt cat she is!

Hi Dill, after an unexpected series of events we came to own a well bred pedigree kitten a couple of years ago, and intended to have one litter from her because her breeder badly wanted it. We have bitches that have had a litter, dogs that have been used at stud, entire dogs and bitches that will never be bred from, all of them covering the complete age gamut. So if we can cope with that, we can keep one young pedigree cat from getting out when she's calling for just a couple of seasons, right? WRONG!!

Without a cattery or fully cat-proofed home (does such a thing exist?), keeping a randy entire female cat in is the most difficult thing I've tried to do. Little Ms Houdini got out twice by mysterious means while we sweltered with all the windows closed. Fortunately she must not have found a feline Romeo either time, but that was enough, and with apologies to her breeder she was neutered before she presented us with pedigree x farm tom offspring. To add to the problem, if a dog has a misalliance, in the vast majority of cases the bitch owner will know about it, but if Ms Kitty evaporates from the home as ours did, I imagine it would be all too easy for her to reincarnate in her favourite corner (with a smile on her face) before she was missed. So maybe many of the x-bred /pedigree cats  are  the result of genuine accidents?

Im lucky to be living in the country at the end of a cul de sac with open farm land and woodland to 3 sides of my property, I have only just moved here which is why I got the cats,  when I lived at home we had 3 get run over on exactly the same bit of road - heart breaking :(  Problem is now, if I ever move it will have to be to a similar property :D :D

My x-bred kittens cost £80 each this did seem the going price for x-bred kittens and although they are effectively moggies they still have the looks and personality of a pedigree.  But the £160 I paid for the kittens was nothing compared to the £180 I spent on all their goodies (including delux climbing/scratching thing) then the £250+ that I have spent so far for vaccinations, worming and micro chipping .... and then there is the insurance ..................... :rolleyes: :D

Claire :)

Lel - It would seem that we are in the minority.

Snoopy - Although dogs and cats appear to have different needs actually their needs are very much the same.  They need the same care, and cats definately need socializing in the same way as puppies, have you ever met an anti social cat?? or a badly socialized one?? at best they are very nervous, at worst they can be dangerous - all those teeth and 16 needle sharp claws and they don't need provocation to attack either.  They also need as much mental stimulation as a dog does.  The main reasons cats end up in rescue are 1. The ease of obtaining a moggie kitten - no questions asked from the owner just 'how many do you want?'  2. Wandering - contrary to common belief cats don't always return, they are just as likely to get lost if they get scared or chased as any dog, and how many are picked up by the well-meaning public and handed into rescue??.  Burmese for example are inquisitive and are well known for getting into lorries and cars and ending up hundreds of miles away, totally disorientated and lost.

Jakieboy - "cats were born to roam"  :rolleyes: 25 years ago that was said about dogs - our dog was the only dog I knew that was kept in and walked on a lead, the majority were turned out in the morning and 'walked' themselves, often forming packs to roam around in.  The main reason that most dogs are now kept in is that it will cost you to get your dog back from the dog warden.

Jas - if you really want to it is fairly easy to cat proof the home.  I bred Burmese (the randiest and most resourceful along with Siamese) and had a small child, the cats never escaped - even when on heat - and we were able to have the windows open.  The problem with x-breeds is that kitten farmers can have at least 4 litters of kittens a year easily from the same cat - not good for the mother or the kittens :(  and 6 kits 4 times a year even at £70/£80 each is quite a money spinner since the cats don't eat as much as dogs and it is possible to keep quite a few breeding queens in a very small space as they are usually very sociable animals.

Well said Dill. Gillian owner of two Ragdoll house cats who think they're dogs anyway :D

:D  Gillian

Funny that isn't it?   The more you see of your cats and get to know them properly, the more they seem like dogs :D  Ragdolls are gorgeous :)

Mine are like dogs, one of them even plays fetch with a furry mouse

yes cats are born to roam - i meant it about their personalities rather then cats v dogs etc.  My cats prefer to be out and about - i have 5 of them - they only come in when they want food, or somewhere warm to curl up.  Whereas my dogs would much rather stay indoors regardless - thats all i meant, no need to jump on me - i don't agree with free ads or petshops for any pet but i had no choice, my littlun wanted his own kitten as my daughter has 2 cats, and I wanted one as well. I researched the type of cats and contacted breeders etc the same as when i got my cocker - ebony.  The contracts put a stop to it, not that i wanted to breed, it would have been neutered as soon as possible.  Keeping it indoors would of been a problem (not that i wouldn't have tried) but with 2 dogs and 3 cats, a huge garden and 2 kids - how on earth could i have kept it in.  I was honest with the breeders, a couple would of sold me a kitten, many would not.  However, in the end i decided not to - it was a lot of money, and the money i was expecting from the sale of my flat hadn't come through.  But you can't exactly explain that to a 5 yr old.  We went into a pet shop to get some supplies, and there was 2 kittens - exactly what i wanted - semi longhaired, black and white. I fell in love and bought em.  I feel guilty that i did what i said i'd never do, but on the other hand i now have 2 gorgeous kittens, who get on well with everyone, and are desperate to get into the garden.

I would have gone to rescue - my other 3 are rescue cats, but when i went the rspca cattery about 4 yrs ago, like i said they refused, they let jessie choose a kitten first before saying no to her, they told me i lied about getting my first cat from the rspca when jess was only 3, sorry but for them to beg in the local papers every week for owners, then to call me a liar and callously take jess into the kitten room and choose one then telling her no you can't have one is too cruel for words really.  Why would I give my money to them?  Unfortanately the lady who i got another of my rescue cats of had died, she did a wonderful job, all financed herself.  So i was stuck.

Sorry to rant on - but not all of us buy these kittens without any thought etc.  I know it was wrong to participate in the sale of cats from pet shops, but i did.

Jakieboy,

Not meaning to jump on you or anyone else :) but having heard the "born to roam" one so many times in regards to dogs ( and yes those dogs were desperate to get out in the morning since thats all they'd known from puppyhood and they would only go home when they were hungry and wanted a warm place to sleep) along the years and having had experience of cats who have been kept in for their own safety, I can't see much of a difference. This is my personal opinion.

My original post was more to do with the fact that on this board we advise people to avoid backstreet breeders who are offering for sale expensive crossbreeds, often advertised in the free ads.  I was not saying that all cats should be kept in, simply that there seemed to be a lot of 'accidental' kittens and that in dogs we consider that the oldest excuse in the book ;) if you want to allow your cat to roam thats fine but kittens can be easily avoided by neutering.  Neutering in cats does not appear to have the same downsides as for dogs and if you wish to show your cat you can still do so, they have championship equivalents - the Premier - and they can even compete for Grand Premier status after neutering, so wanting to show is no excuse for not neutering (Pity they don't do the same for dogs :( ) or if you don't want to neuter your female you can put her on the Pill to prevent seasons until alitter is wanted( since they come into season every two weeks ) Controlling a male cat isn't so simple but neutering is very effective since the males are in season every day.

If we are trying to educate visitors and members of this board regarding the crossbreeding of dogs for profit and puppy farming, how can we expect them to take us seriously if they then read some of the above posts??

For those of you considering buying a pedigree kitten or crossbreed the following may be of interest.  Anyone trying to sell pedigree or crossbred kittens before this age and without full innoculations is only really interested in profit :(  Moggie kittens are usually given away so you wouldn't expect them to be innoculated :(

"The GCCF strongly recommends that no kitten should be permitted to go to a new home before 13 weeks of age. At least seven days prior to this, the kitten should have completed a full course of vaccinations, including a health check, given by a Veterinary Surgeon or by a listed Veterinary Nurse under the direction of a Veterinary Surgeon. The breeder should ensure that kittens are house-trained, inoculated and in good general health."

Taken from the GCCF site page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/GCCF_CATS/ethics.htm

Regards
Dill

Geezy wheezy,

An innocent thread about kittens and we are all on our moral high grounds!   

As a very experienced ex-cat owner of all neutered moggies, I had been thinking about a pedigree but having now seen the prices - GULP! - my cat would just be a neutered pet so I thought a x-bred kitten would be a bit of a cheaper alternative.

IF anyone knows of any kittens in the future etc.  you are more than welcome to PM me.   I have been offered a Laperm kitten (Which I didn't even know existed!) but at £350, I have had to refuse!    The Tonk's and the Burmilla's appeal to me as I think their temperaments would suit me & the dogs.   Any kitten would be assured of a brilliant home in a very quiet cul-de-sac.

Christine

i love russian blue they are just beautiful and the turkish van so so cute my cousin has a turkish van called snowy she is so cute

Hi Dill, I would be really interested in ideas on cat-proofing the house while keeping windows open. Our previous two cats and one elderly present one were mogs from the local rescue. They've all been pleasant likeable cats, but the little pedigree lady is much more loving, playful and people orientated. I don't know if has to do with her breed or the socialisation she got from her breeder or both, but she's as good company as any dog. So when the old mog goes we will get another kitten from the same breeder, and if we could cat proof the house (and under strict instruction from the breeder only!) we might think about breeding.

I work in a cat refuge. We don't have any restrictions on the homes they go to. We have over 10,000 cats and kittens surrendered to us each year, and less than 4,000 of these manage to find homes. In one month alone during breeding season we can get over 2,000. The RSPCA doesn't lift a finger compared to us. They say they're against euthanasia but when they're full, they tell people to come to us to surrender their cats (in fact, all the animal rescues do) knowing full well that we do euthanase because we have to. There's simply nowhere for these cats to go.

So many people don't realise that cats need proper loving care, not just food water and a bit of shelter. Cats need to be kept in at night. They DO wander and get lost. They can get into fights, kill pet birds, spray urine over neighbour's property and be a general nucience to non-cat lovers. It's much harder to control the activities of a cat than it is a dog. SPAY AND NEUTER! I can't stress this enough.

Jas,

Sorry for the slow reply but I was hunting in the attic for my cat information :D.  I have now found it and have sent you an e-mail.
What breed do you have? some cat breeds are well known for being extra loving and people-oriented :).  You're also right about the extra socialisation, at 14 weeks they have had plenty of mothering from mum and lots of handling from the breeder and this makes a huge difference :).
Lily,

Not wishing to occupy any highground, moral or otherwise ;)  just worrying about the way these posts reflected on the forum :(.
As a matter of interest how did the price of a pedigree kitten compare to that a pedigree dog? (I'm a bit out of touch these days) The costs of breeding and showing are comparable to to those of breeding/showing dogs.

Regards
Dill

Dill,

The £350 quoted to me was just for a "bog-standard" kitten of this Laperm breed, I didn't enquire as to whether it was show/breeding quality, I doubt it as I had said I would neuter.    That is only £50 less than what I sell my Munster pups for regardless of show/work ability etc.     Think it'll have to be a X-breed!!  ;)

Lily,

It may still have been 'showable' as you can show neutered cats the same as unneutered, they have championship and Grand Championship status too (the Premier and Grand Premier) :)  All pedigree cats have to have a blood test for FeLV, FIP and FIV before each mating (certificates are checked) and many breeds have only one or two kittens in a litter.  Litters of 6 or more are unusual in most breeds.  £350 is about average for even a very small pedigree dog, why would you expect to pay less for a pedigree cat?  Not particularly talking about the Laperm here as I don't know much about it except that it isn't even mentioned on the GCCF website so is probably on the 'recognition applied for' list.  Personally I wouldn't pay £350 for a Laperm either, but thats more because they don't have CH status and may never even be recognised ~(and they don't appeal to me).

Regards
Dill

Hi Dill I paid £350 for my latest Ragdoll Kitten this is the standard neutered pet price I believe at the moment.I don't honestly see this as being any different to buying a pedigree puppy. Gillian

Hi again - what about contacting breeders via websites of the types of cat you want and maybe getting a slightly older cat, might work out slightly cheaper, and will have had all tests, vaccs and neutering done.  Just a thought - unless you want a tiny kitten of course. I found a lot of breeder websites in some of the cat magazines when i was looking. 

Nikki x

The reason I got  kittens rather than a cats was because I wanted them to grow up getting used to all the different dogs that frequent my house !!!  Unless a cat has been brought up with dogs it could have been difficult, but im sure with time and patience an older cat can be introduced to a dog :)