Very sad news. Just brought the 6 wk pup to the vet for a check up.
Upon picking up the pup, vet said that the pup didn't seem to have much energy (unusual for the mini schnauzer breed).
Did blood test and found that the enyzeme levels are to high which gives a good indication of kidney and liver problems which will show up when the pup is around 4 to 6 months old. It is all very sad. The poor little pup will have to be returned and I'll make sure the shop notifies the breeders. It is just too sad.

Happy I am so sad for you. PLEASE PLEASE do not purchase another pup from a shop!!!!

The shop may or may not inform the pups breeder, but it is doubtful if the breeder would care less even if they do.

Think about it.  Could you imagine breeding a litter from your much loved bitch and then selling them to a shop where you would have no idea of who they were then sold on to????

Responsible breeders spend ages agonising over whether the pups are in the best possible homes, and even with all this care on average at least one pup from the litter witll need to be rehomed at some point in it's life. 

This kind of breeder will have picked tyhe most suitable mate to produce puppies as close to the breed standard as posssible.  they will almost invariably beolong to one of the bgreed clubs, and probably show their dogs too, so know what the diferent lines are producing, enabling them to make the most informed breeding choices.

When you next decide to get a pup, I sduggest you get in tough wih one of the breed clubs, who will usually have a list of members who may have or be planning a litter.

Hi Happy

I'm so sorry for you. Its hard, because you grow so fund of the little creature so fast!

Thank god, we don't have petshops here in Denmark. Yes we have petshops, but that is only things to your dogs, cats and horses yu can buy in there, not cats or dogs. Some of them have fish, guinea pigs and rabbits. But it is illegal to sell cats and dogs in shops. Thank god.

My girl was bought from a family, who wanted their dog to have puppies, because she was such a sweet and nice dog. And I have been very lucky with my girl.

I hope you find another puppy, and that you'll be lucky this time.

Thinking of you. And hope that you despite this experience have a happy new year.

Jeanette and Luna

I would be interested in where you bought this pup, as I am sure it is against the law for any shop or retail outlet to sell pups under 8 weeks old.

:(

Whats going to happen to the puppy? :(

Sorry if Iam sounding rude but since you went into this blindly and bought a pup from a petshop and not the breeder shouldn't you take full responsibility of this puppy and care for the wee lil one till the end.....I have heard so many horror stories as well as watched them on t.v with what they do with puppies that are not just right. :( One that sticks out is where they inject them with bleach to kill them, how horrible :( Couldn't even imagine the pain, or even drowning them....

Why we should not buy from pet shops and only from good breeders

here

:(

I agree dollface, i didn't think of that the first time i read this. Just becuase a puppy is bought from a shop it does not make it an object that you return to the shop because it is faulty. Sure you may have lost money and the shop is at fault but its a puppy not a washing machine and deserves to be treated as such. I would imagine that if it is returned it will just be put down humanely, or even worse as dollface suggests, straight away anyway, who will want to look after it and pay all the vets bills? I couldn't part with any of my dogs like that, even if i had only had them for a very short while, once they are home they are my babies and with me to the end.

Does this problem mean that the pup will die at 4-5 months old? (sorry I know absolutely nothing about this condition) if this is the case, can't she take it a vet herself and get it put down and try and get a result in the small claims court?  As far as I know in the eyes of the law a dog may as well be a washing machine :(.  If the vet is willing to sign some kind of statment saying the dog was not fit for the purpose intended shes in with a good chance of winning.  At least she can have piece of mind the poor pup has been taken care of in a humane manner and if the outcome is favourable in the court local newspapers are always interested, any resultant bad publicity would be a good thing surely?

If this condition does not necessarily mean the pup will die I agree with dollface & lucyandmeg it should be looked after like it deserves.  Maybe you can still claim your money back in the small claims court and if you win it doesn't mean the pup has to go back.
Clair

Right. Crucify the buyer.
I would like to correct the notion that the puppy was bought "blindly". Puppies are brought to the vet for check up within 48 hours to make sure that there are no serious problems. There are somethings that cannot be identified visually and require deeper tests eg: blood test. Puppies are brought to the vet to get an expert opinion and eye.
In this case, the news was not good and the advice was to return the pup. While it is well and good to say that the new owner should take full responisbility and take care of the pup that was bought "blindly" which i refute, there are things that must be considered, eg: emotional attachment, whether one can take the death of such a young pup when it does happen, other loss that one may have sufferred earlier.
It is not an easy decision by all means and unless you are in the person's shoes, do not judge and pass "airy" comments. It is a very hard and heartrending decision. It was not done without a lot of thought and discussion.

Sorry to say if there was alot of thought put into getting this puppy in the first place you never would of supported a PUPPY MILL and bought from a pet store (did you read my post where it says HERE...Thats what I ment by bought blindly. I have a pup with a rectal prolapse who I was told may last a week, a month maybe a couple of years and if I'm lucky will live till he is old and pass on naturally so to speak. Never once did I look at him and think about pts or getting rid of him....It was not his fault and glad to say he is a happy 2 year old dog now and yes still has the rectal prolapse plus other problems. Guess that kinda put me in your shoe's then uh ;)

Good luck if you really think the breeder is going to give 2 sh**s about this puppy once you give her back. Breeders take their own puppies to the vet to make sure all is healthy and well before they ever consider placing them into a home, and also do all the proper tests on the parents to try and ensure a well bred pup in the first place. Bought off a good breeder you would have them there for support and a health guarentee on your pup incase there are things that may go wrong, they would be there for you as well as for their puppies.

Yes I still say if you could buy on sudden impulse from a pet shop and not do your homework on the breed and buy off a respected breeder you did go into this blindly.

Sorry if I offended you in any way but this is how I feel. Many people buy from pet shops and then wonder why their poor puppy has so many problems, and the more people we can educate so they stop buying from petshops hopefully will put an end to puppy mills in the future. :) One can always hope :)

If you do give the puppy back why not ask if you can return the pup to the breeder yourself and check them out....

You are entitled your opinion.

Hello Happy, did the vet tell you the cause of the problem? Was liver shunt or portacaval shunt mentioned?

Well said dollface( it was an impulse buy) know one these days  can say that they didnt know you shouldnt buy from pet shops/dealers/mills/backyard non careing breeders as that is all we keep saying on here and i know its said every where, SO WHY DO IT.......you have this little pup you should care for it give it love for the short time it has left then do the right thing and have it peacefuly put to sleep thats what a dog loving person would do, and then i would sue the shop.

i agree one hundred percent...I would never send this pup back to people who care so little about it.

When you make a commitment to take a puppy into your home, you have to be prepared for all situations - good & bad. If you are not prepared to do the best for your dog - even if that means having it pts, you should not make the commitment in the first place. Cannot believe that anyone who cares about dogs would even consider taking this pup back to such a place.

Corso girl, I have replied below, but would just like to ask HOW everyone knows these days not to buy from pet shops.  Puppy mills have been shown up for what they are on TV (I think - but still if you missed the programme you may be unaware), but where is all the other stuff that lets the General Public know that it is a bad idea to buy from a Pet shop?

Fiona and Saffy

I never said that you bought the pup "blindly" saying that it is irrelevant now, as hes already home. You have been landed with a six week old pup that is sick who was from a pet shop bred by a breeder that probably doesn't give a damm about the pups. 

As for "judging" and "passing airy comments" you have a situation on your hands that needs dealing with, and IMO dealt with the best interest of the puppy in mind.  I know exactly how it feels to be in your shoes, its happened to me with a dog (it was from a breeder not a pet shop) all we could do was make the dog as happy and comfortable as possible until his short time was up.  We weren't going to send him back to the breeder, we couldn't imagine him ending up goodness knows where!

You cant hand this wee thing back just because its not perfect. If it was a child you would have to give it love amd care & you should be doing this for the puppy. I cared for my collie with arthritis from being a puppy till i had to have her pts at 8yrs old. she was contantly on steroids and pain relief constantly dieted and weighed & i would do it again this is the love we have for our pets. You should think long & hard before you decide. I wish you well whatever you decide

Jean

please dont take the puppy back to the shop :( god knows what will happen to it poor thing, it isnt the puppys fault, i agree with lady dazzle im sure its illegal to sell puppys in shops,
Heidi

Sadly as long as the shop has a license to sell livestock there is nothing ilegal about selling puppies this way, though it is totally unethical IMO.

I thought they had to be 8 weeks old and over though Barbara???

From what I understand from reading the Breeding and Sale of Dogs Act there is no restriction on the age that a pet shop can sell pups. :( They are the only place to which a licenced breeder can sell them under 8 weeks, and they have to be identified with a collar and tag, which the pup has to be wearing when it is sold to the customer. How many are sold with collars and tags with the necessary ID (indicating where the pup was born)?

Well having read that I'm shocked.

Typical of this stupid government and its rules.

That means that a registered breeder can sell a young puppy under 8 weeks to a shop, but not to a kind and caring individual home.  Thats scandalous :-(

Be interesting to know whether the posters puppy had its collar and tag on showing its age and where it was bred etc. when she purchased it.

Jayne

This is the bit I hope someone can clarify.  The breeding and sale of dogs welfare bill does not allow regitered breeders to sell puppies under 8 weeks EXCEPT TO A LICENSED PET SHOP OR SCOTTISH REARING ESTABLISHMENT.  So if I am not mistaken this means that commercial breeders can't sell a puppy direct to a new owner under 8 weeks, but can sell it even younger to go to a Pet Shop, which is surely far worse!!!

Breeders that so not need to be registered (breeding fewer than 5 litters in any 12 month) as far as I know can sell a pup at any age, though didn't the old rules make it ilegal to sell pups or kittens under 6 weeks, or was this a bylaw????

I think it is a mistake to insist that all puppies bought from pet shops are bought on impulse.  Before we got Saffy (a breed I had researched for about 6-7 years and booked before birth from a reputable breeder), I never even knew that buying from a pet shop was not the done thing!  For a start, I never had access to the internet then and some pet shops always had puppies.  If I had wanted one of the more popular breeds I may well have got one from a pet shop. I never would now, obviously, but I never knew any better then, like most of the general public.  Also, once I had decided that I wanted a dog and had considered it fully, I remember we drove halfway to Battersea Dogs home to get one on the spur of the moment (realised we would be too late so turned back).  I do not think I am a bad owner though because of any of this.

Another thing to consider is that while accepting responsibility for any pet you buy once you have it in your home is a must, surely not at least making the breeder/shop aware of ill health and Their responsibility in selling such an animal is also wrong.  My sister once bought a kitten - years ago from a pet shop, took it to the vet for a check up and it had feline flu (or something).  She took it back to the shop and the whole litter had it.  if she had not returned it all the other kittens would have been sold, maybe to homes with children, only for them to die soon after.

Buying from a shop should be avoided we know now, but I feel if an animal is bought sick, then the shop should be made to pay as this may discourage them from selling such animals.

At least the original poster cared enough to take the puppy straight to the vets.

Fiona and Saffy

Hi Alexanders.  I hope you take the post in the way I intend, as I really would like to know why the general public see nothing wroing with buying puppies from a shop??? 

If the problems of ill bred puppy farmed pups is to ever improve then we all need to know why anyone would buy from these places, and then in my Opinion that is where the likes of the RSPCA should direct it's resources when advertising to educate thee buyers, no market no puppy farms.  If no-one would buy from Pet shops and p7uppy supermarkets (who have slick sales pitches) then the businesses simply wouldn't stock the ITEM!!!!

We have had posters on here who have bought pups from these retail outlest being assured by the shops that pups vcame from the best reputable breeders, but how can this be, surely a moments thought would tell a person otherwise.  How xould a caring breeder just let their darling pups go to a third party not knowing to whom they would be sold on, and whether the homes would be suitable???  Ijust don't get it, but it happens day in day out!!!

I can't believe what I've read!  If I got a pup and then found out it had something wrong there is no way in a million years that I'd give it back.  Its part of the family ISN'T IT??  Well it would be here that's for sure.  Live with it!  and make its last few weeks/months as happy and comfortable as possible - poor little thing.  If you take another route, I'm certain that the pup will be pts without giving it another thought.

Hi Brainless, firstly can I say that I do NOT agree with anyone buying a puppy from a pet shop!  What I am saying is that alot of people, especially first time dog owners are UNAWARE that it is a bad idea to buy from a pet shop.  I know people who have bought from pet shops and who are perfectly happy with their puppy (again I am NOT condoning this), but they would see no reason not to buy another from a shop.  What I was trying to say is that not everyone buys from pet shops on impulse.  As a first time dog owner, if I had wanted a westie or other breed that you commonly see sold in pet shops then I probably might have gone to a pet shop as I was unaware that it was not a good thing. I am not a stupid person, its just that when doing something for the first time, you often learn by your mistakes.  As it turned out, the breed I set my heart on is not one you would see in a pet shop and I had to search further.  Luckily for me, I do have internet access and learnt before I made a mistake.  I agree that if people did not buy from shops then the ITEM would not be stocked, but to get that to happen the general public has to be educated through more mediums than just the internet.

Secondly, I did not say the puppy should be returned, but only that the shop should be made to pay for any treatment needed - maybe under the Sale of Goods act or whatever.

In response to Lucytia, if I bought an animal into my house that was only going to cause my children heartache from the outset, then I would be torn as to what to do.  My house is no place to bring a sick animal intentionally - 3 rowdy boys and by simply keeping the sick puppy and not at least making a huge fuss at the pet shop then you are actually encouraging them to sell sick puppies.  If they do not need to ensure they are at least healthy at the outset, then surely that is worse for the animals!

Fiona and Saffy

That is the bit I don't understand.  Why do people not think there is anything wrong with buying from a shop.  I know you NOW don't approve, but why did you once think it was OK or the norm???

I think my answer would have to be that as a completly inexperienced dog person many years ago (had dogs as kids bought from shops though), if I went into a pet shop and saw puppies, I never knew there was anything wrong with that.  If they looked healthy and okay, then why think otherwise. I am unaware to any public awareness campaign to show the plight of puppies in pet shops.  Also, the law allows it (and although we know tht does not mean anything AT ALL), many people would think that means its okay.

Basically, unless you are involved with breeding, showing, animal welfare or have a real interest in animals, then there is nothing that makes you aware of how bad it is to sell animals in shops.  Many people have come on this board and shown their initial ignorance, but have then realised and would not make the same mistake again.  I think it boils down to the fact that if you do not realise something is wrong, you do not even look for evidence that it is. Until I started looking for breeders of Briards and then to start researching the breed, I don't think I was even aware of half of what I am now.

As a child, my parents bought dogs from shops and so did everybody who bought dogs then where we lived.  I do not remember health problems with ours, so really had no reason the question buying from a shop. Also, as you can buy many types of animals from shops, people simply just do not question it.

Unless it is made law that dogs or any animals cannot be sold from shops, it will not stop.  As I have said above, WHERE are the general public being made aware that purchasing puppies from a shop is not good? Or from some supposedly legitimate breeders for that matter?  My sisters first dog came from a so called top breeder whose name she got from a dog magazine.  when she had it vet checked, she was told the dog had a problems with its heart.  She had bought the dog for her daughter (with parental back up, NOT bought on a whim) and her children had fallen in love with her the minute they saw her so although the breeder offered to take the dog back, my sister declined. I have since seen that this breeder has registered more than one litter from the same bitch in one year and has several litters every year!! Don't ask me why the KC did nothing!
Fiona
Edit: sorry my posts are so long!

Erm, I don't buy this post. :)

Jo

I couldnt return the poor little thing :(
What will the shop do with it??

Sell it on some where else/kill it/send it back to the vile place it was bred to be sold on/killed who knows what these people will do as all they care about is making money, its no good just to take it back and get your money back so will that make it better.. you must take them to court get on to there council, all papers(dog) tell you not to buy from pet shops, there are posters about telling you? rescue centres tell you on there posters. even the RSPCA tell you, there is no excuse these days for not knowing.

I know what they are likely to do with pup but just wanted the poster to be aware of what he will be returning pup to :o

Corso girl, alot of people who are buying their first dog do not buy DOG Papers (I don't even now).  Also, I don't think I have seen any posters about pet shops?! I do not agree with pet shops selling animals, but think you are being harsh saying that everyone who buys from them bought on impulse!!

Fiona

The poster. We've not heard any more from "happy" an unfortunate name it doesn't seem to go with the post

Jean

Yes lel you might but does Happy???????? And Alexander i dont think i am being harsh!! people do buy on impulse walk pass the pet shop window  oh look at that puppy oh how sweet lets buy one thats why pet shops buy animals in people buy rabbits/kittens /g-pigs all on impulse because they look so sweet, i still say there is no excuse for not knowing, just the other week some one i know went to visit his brother and there was a puppy Lab where did he buy it from a pet shop he was out in town and there was this pet shop and in the window all these pups walked in asked about them got told some nice story paid for it took it not asked any thing about his life style an impulse buy.

Well, this is the original poster.
We've decided to keep the puppy and will give her the best care we can.
I will say that it is easy to condemn without knowing actual facts. The puppy was not bought on impulse. The fact that it was bought from a pet shop may not be the best thing but does not deserve the backlash that has been levied.
I had posted originally in the hope of getting constuctive advice which unfortunately i did not receive but instead received a thorough tongue lashing.
Rest assured that Happy will be given the best of care and we love her very much.
I will not be posting in this site anymore.

Hi Happy,
Don't give up on this site so soon. They really are a good lot. I don't post too often but everyone here has helped me at one time or another. People do get het up at times, thats just human nature, it's not meant to be personal. I've been following your post, I think it is very brave of you and your family, I would keep her too. I rescued a pup that I was told needed his leg amputated, I was worried about the cost of the op, today the vet said he can keep his leg. I would have found the money somewhere but I am happier that he can keep it. I have dogs with all sorts of problems and this is the site that is most helpful. Now they know you are keeping the pup you'll see a change. They really are a good lot!!!
D4wn

Happy I thought my repl6y had been to the point.  I know you are keeping the pup, but the shop and the breeder count on this happening, so really you do need to cause a stink, and at least get your money back.  Take them to the small claims court, and contact trading standards.  the shop is supposed to identify each puppy with a tag as to where it was bred, aqnd also there is the sale of goods act and selling faulty goods not fit for purpose etc.

Now you are aware about the evils of breeding and selling puppies in this uncaring fashion purely as a commodity and not for the betterment and continuatipon of the breed standard, then it is best to make them pay theough the nose, and hopefully they will find it unprofitable to contiue this sorry trade.

Instead of thinking of a pet shop buy as "silly, blind, impulse" could it not be though of, (considering earlier posts about injecting bleach into the dog etc..) as sort of 'saving ' the dog from the pet shop.....you know, giving it a nice home, and looking after it..

I have lived with 2 ppl who have had pet shop buys...and their pet shop bought dogs....
the first was a complete impulse buy, he was going to buy a grebil but boght a dog insteasd as soon as he saw the dog...
and the second one, she was woking i the pet shop and fell in love with the dog gradually, the dog was very nervous and now is ALOT more confident, and I sort of think that she was 'rescued'.

However, I can see whee all you lot are coming from because if the dog was not sold to the pet shop, the would not need to be rescued, and it seems to be a vicious circle..
Then again, who's t say the breeders home would be any better than then pet shop?
If a breeder is so irresponsiable to sell a pppy to a pet shop, then why would life with them be so great?!?

I feel very sorry for you though Happy. I think if you were looking for a pedigree dog you should have gone to a breeders but if ou were loking for a crossbreed, I think pet shops are okay, and you probably fell in love with the dog
*please have a heart....you know, six week old sausage dg..how cute!*
Sort of understand you not wanting the pup to die with you but still think you should have kept him snug and secure until the day,I meant it's a reponsibibly, its like having a child, if you had a baby and found out it had one year to live, you wouldn't ^give it back^ so t speak...

Anyway....sittting here, petrified of you lot about to throw things at me for undersanfiding Happy a little.... (:0)

From Me,, and Milly (asleep under the bed))

The trouble is that pet shops, like puppy farms (where the 'stock' generally comes from) tend to work on a supply-and-demand basis. Every pup someone buys from one of these places condemns another whole litter to the same fate. The original pup may indeed be 'saved' but what about the litter bred (from a poor overworked bitch in shocking conditions?) to replace it in the shop?

Everybody who buys a pet-shop or puppy-farm puppy is supporting and encouraging the trade. If the pups aren't bought, eventually they won't be bred. And then, in an ideal world, all pet puppies will come from responsible breeders. The breeders who supply pet-shops simply aren't reputable.

Jeangenie,

Nice one - with regard to your comments!

<<<but if you were looking for a crossbreed, I think pet shops are okay >>>>

Sorry but I totally disagree.
Why should crossbreeds be an different ??
I dont think these postings have anything to do with berating the original poster- they are more to make people aware of the facts that exist behind pups that come from petshops.
If you were an ethical breeder would you not care where your pups end up ? Why do you think decent breeders question the homelife of potential new owners ? Because they care where puppy goes and what sort of life he'll lead. People who sell to petshops couldnt care less who has one of their pups- or what sort of life it will lead as long as their big fat pockets are being filled

If you really want to see why people are against pet shops and puppy mills you only have to do some searching to see the conditions these poor bitches are kept in ....
And then see if you still think it is ok !

<<< Why should crossbreeds be any different ?? >>>>>

I think crossbreeds are very different.
With a pedigree dog, you know what you're getting, you never know exactly what you're getting but with a pedigree, you can think
eg. A german shepherd, big dog, little bit nervous, good guard dog etc...
With a crossbreed, you have no idea really what you're getting so if the dog is massive for a 12 week old, you might think, "oh great-massive dog" but the dog might not grow at all after that...
I know selling animals from a pet shop is awful, and buying animals rom a petshop is just supporting selling them, but if you're buying a crossbredd/mongrel you're taking a chance anyway so thats why I think it IS different for crossbreeds..

From Me and milly (don't know where she is)

Cross breeds still need the same socialisation as any pure bred dog - they are still DOGS! And no pet shop can provide this, just as no puppy farm can provide it, simply because of the way these places are set up.

yes they are still dogs and do need socialisation but i was just sorta saying if you had tog et a crossbreed dog or a pure bred dog from a pet shop, (I anyway) wouold go for a cross breed.... :(

Sorry but I still disagree
A crossbreed deserves just as good a start in life as any other dog .
It doesnt deserve to come from a puppy mill/ pet shop either and it certainly doesnt deserve to go into an unvetted home . Its breeding is no fault of its own :(

Why do you think the welfare of crossbred puppies is of less importance than that of 'pedigree' puppies?

Sorry, but your post has really really P*SSED me off!!

its OK to buy a crossbreed from a petshop is it? So crossbreeds dont deserve the time and care that pedigrees do?? Crossbreeds dont deserve to have time taken to make the decision to purchase them, to think about the commitment being made to them for the rest of their lives????

Right, u come to my house and tell my two crossbreeds that they are less worthy of a good start in life than a dog whose birth was arranged from same breed parents.

Sorry but your attitude DISGUSTS me!!!!!!

As you said, buying a crossbreed IS a bit of a gamble, at 8 weeks, u NEED to know dogs to have a chance at guessing at how the dog will turn out. So WHY ON EARTH make that gamble at the start of a dogs life any worse by purchasing it at a pet shop????

That has to be the STUPIDEST comment made on this board so far this year! Well done!

Em  (GRRRRRRRR) (HAPPY owner of two crossbreeds, one rescued, one bought from his BREEDER)