Hello, I am new to this list and wanted to let as many people as poss know about the problems we are having, so you might either avoid them or offer any help/advise if you are able. Here is a pasted email for you all to read. Thanks for listening.

<Thanks Leigh. I am getting a bit het up about all this and am not in control!!Please pass on to any other lists you care to...most grateful. This is a letter to the dog press which is what I intended you to have!>

"Dear Sir or Madam

Would you please print this in your letters page, under the heading "This could happen to you!".

" Our local council, Sedgemoor District Council, upon visiting us (without invitation, by the way) in order to assess our planning application for continued use as a Dog Training establishment, have also determined that we have more than 6 dogs. In their view we need planning consent for this, even though there is nothing in law to say this.

We have always had dogs (for 30 years!) for our hobby as working trials,plus occasional breed showing and breeding. We do not need a Breeders License as determined by the same Councils' Environmental Health Dept (so are not deemed "commercial"). Irrespective of the Dog training business, we would always have a number of dogs as we are both competitive enthusiasts.

Having supported Justice for Dogs for several years, we contacted them and they in turn have offered lots of advice, encouragement and support.

This letter is twofold.

First, be aware that this could happen to you, if you, like many dog folk who do this as a hobby, do have more than 6 dogs.

Second, Please support Justice for Dogs. The subscription is modest (£6 for a single, £9 for a double or £15 for a club etc.) or run some fund raising events if you can, coffee mornings, exemption shows, Good Citizens tests etc.) Contact Ann Harpwood at Finloren Cottage, Weythel, Old Radnor, Powys, LD8 2RR ot phone 01544 370213.

There is also a third message. "Wish us Luck!!"

John and Jacqueline Barron
Woolavington, Somerset"

The worst case scenario is that a court might rule in the councils favour....then what? Obviously appeals, but the time, stress etc it would cost! Then what about the "excess" dogs? We could apply, but what if we were turned down, as is likely in our case. We do not have a noise problem, but we do have a nieghbour problem; don't like dogs and don't like us.

Oh for a good nights sleep!

Jacqui

Welcome to the forum Jacqui :-)

I hope that someone here can offer you some advice. Thank you for the tip off and keep us posted as to the outcome.

Good Luck!

Leigh

I think this in the hobby owning side of things could cause problems. I have a number of dogs 6 of which are over 8 years old. I am not one of these people who once the showing, working etc. has finished gets rid of my dogs, they are kept until their last day which in Pomeranians could be 16 years, but I could see this happening with a number of people if this is enforced (not me though). Lets face it, it does happen with a number of people already. What's going to happen to these poor dogs, has anybody thought about that, I doubt it!!

I seem to be missing something because I havent read this as a ruling that no-one is allowed to own more than 6 dogs can someone give me the actual facts behind this please. Thanks.

[deleted] by Bazza as this has now gone off topic.

Trouble is that some councils have a very strange idea of commercial. I have heard that some consider a breeder commercial if they sell any puppy at all, they do not have to make a profit. Please how many of us spend a fortune on rearing a litter, and then give the Puppies away!

I have given a pup away! Did so on my first litter. A good home is far more important than making money!

I have given and been given several puppies over the years :-)

Same here and boy have we had hassle recently. Fortunately the council were great and very friendly. Just for the sake of one person, who won't even identify themselves!! After 30 years I'm leaving home and really its due to this. Oh well.

I don't mean you don't give any pups away, but I am pretty sure most people don't give ALL their pups away, if they do they must be pretty well off! If I could I would keep them all, need to win the lottery so I can afford the staff to look after them, lol:D

Nobody here has said that they give ALL their dogs away, but I have through partnership terms given a no. of my pups away. My first 2 litters in SWD's went without a penny for myself, although I fed them and gave their mother the extra food!!

For people like myself who have imported a breed and don't have many litters it takes years to get the money back for what we have paid out, after 9 years I'm still out of pocket. When we brought our breed into the country the partnership decided that we wouldn't ask the extortionate prices that some breeds do, but I am glad we decided this.

Not everyone who has the occ. litter is out to make money.

My point still holds, that some councils that are unsympathetic to dog breeders have deemed people commercial if they sell ANY Puppy! Usually those who previously had a License under the old Rules where they owned more than Two Breedable Bitches to avoid hassle. Some of these people only breed very occasionally but the Council still want them to be registered. One case was of a lady who did ESS rescue and bred less than once a year!

There is no 6 dog rule, but councils are still trying to require those with more than this or other arbitrary figure to require to apply for Planning Permission for change of use of their property.

Change of use to what? What do they believe you 'are' if you have more than 6 dogs?

In most cases that I have heard about it is to Breeding or Boarding kennels, or A Rescue Sancturay! A friend of mine who has 10 dogs, mostly rescues, that she and her husban and son work in Obedience (though most are retired oldies) had this problem on and off over the years (they did at one time have up to 16 dogs, and some were rescues that they later found a home for), but as she doesn't breed, or Board it came to nothing, but did cause a lot of Grief. they couldn't understand a large number of Pets.

They did then try the Environmental health approach, (as they had a Pet goat at one time tried to get them under farming regulations!), but as their husbandry is good, they didn't succeeed, even though their house, like most of us with dogs, wouldn't get a page in House and Home or gardeners world! Dog waste is disposed of into the sewer (outside lavatory), and Mess is picked up several times a day, dogs are fit and groomed, etc!

She would love to be able to move house, as she has a Public lane leading from a Pub past her garden, and gets yobs tearing down her fence, which means the dogs are kept behind yet another fence, and only can go in the whole of large garden supervised in case the fences have been breached again! She daren't though, as having won her various battles with the council, and all the nighbours know she is there and have moved in since she did, she would be afraid to go any where else as she would be bound to get problems from some quarter!