A couple of questions for the raw feeding experts

I have been giving Polly green tripe for 3 meals per week (she is fed twice a day).Is this too much ? Is tripe considered to be offal ?
She has beef liver once a week and I also want to give her beef heart. Should I alternate with the liver or could she have both each week ?
Otherwise she has veal bones twice a week, chicken/turkey necks 3 times a week, beef twice a week, one fish meal (usually sardines or tuna), one egg + dairy produce (cottage cheese, yoghurt) meal, and one meal of kibble so that she doesn’t forget what it’s like in case we have to revert while on holiday or something. With every meat meal (not bones or egg) she has pureed veg with a teaspoon of oil (various kinds). I did start feeding raw only in the evening but I got so taken up with it we’re doing it full-time (almost) now.

I know everyone has their own ideas, a friend of mine gives her Wolfhound green tripe every day with no apparent ill effects. I would be interested to hear what the experts on this forum recommend !!

Regards from Germany

Carol

Tripe is considered to be offal. Some people feed nothing else. Personally I prefer to give my dogs meat from a number of sources to reduce the possibility of food intolerances building and so I feed it once a week on average.
Liver is offal, heart is considered muscle meat as that is what it is. You can feed both each week. Although a whole beef heart is pretty ginormous. Again I would caution source, you can feed pork, lamb and chicken liver and lambs hearts for variety. You don't mention feeding lamb, pork, duck, rabbit etc is there a reason for this? And what sorts of oil do you feed? EPO and FBO are the best.

HTH

Hi

Lamb and rabbit is not as common here as in the UK and is quite expensive. I am still searching for sources around this area for meat other than beef and poultry. The only lamb source I have found so far can supply lamb tripe, lamb liver lamb heart and lamb mix (normal muscle meat + offal) so we're back to the same offal problem. The lamb mix costs 3 euros/kg (2 pounds sterling approx) which is twice that of beef. The only sources I have found to date for rabbit, duck etc are the supermarkets (Wal Mart for instance) and the prices there are normal "human consumption" prices. Barfers in Germany don't tend to feed pork due to swine pest (is that right in english ?). BTW I wouldn't feed Polly a whole beef heart, just the 200gr which would be normal for her size. I was amazed when the butcher at the pet food shop took the heart out of the fridge- yup, ginormous !!

Chicken liver goes into Polly's liver cake which is used as treats - she loves it. That is 500 gr of liver per cake which lasts about 10 days, though cooked of course ! Just taken one out of the oven - doesn't smell bad at all !

The oil varies - sunflower oil (high vit E), nut oil, olive oil, rape seed, just about any kind which we would use for salads and cooking. I presume EPO is evening primrose, what is FBO?

Am I going to have problems if my main sources are only beef and poultry ? Is this too one-sided ? I do feed fish once a week and the egg/johurt meal once a week.

Just out of curiousity, where do you source your meat ? Supermarket, abattoir, pet shop ? I would be interested as we will be in the UK (Cornwall) again next year on holiday, for three weeks, and I think buying from Asda might be a bit expensive !

Thanks for the advice.

Carol, Germany

FBO= fish body oil,i know what you mean about expensive meat i spent $47AUS yesterday on meat for my dogs which included; 1 rabbit,6quails,pork ribs,chicken giblets and 1/2kilo turkey mince. I tell ya this fresh food feeding biz is sending me broke,i can honestly say they eat better + more expensive than us:) I have finally sourced venison it usually cost $20 per kilo but i can get the off cuts for $3 per k.
I would try to add more meat variety into your dogs meals,i know it can be difficult to find sometimes,maybe buy a duck or something you usually dont buy once a week.

best wishes

christine

Hi Carol, I`ve managed to find a wholesale frozen food place that as well as having frozen imported products also cuts,packages [$ freezes whole fresh animals from the abattoir. Lamb is very expensive here, so my lot get it very rarely but I will buy liver & kidney cos I don`t use too much, but quails & chicken are cheap, so is pork, I feed pork hearts/meat/liver/kidneys & trotters. Turkey I have to buy from the supermarket when it`s on offer, but here they sell the insides(heart,liver,stomach) packaged quite cheaply & I mix that in with their muscle meat for a change of offal. Used to be able to get rabbit but my source has dried up so they haven`t had it a few mths now. Do you give fresh fish? I do & I they have a fish meal twice a wk, when it`s cheap I buy as much as I can & freeze it, yesterday sardines were only 1. EU so I got 8kls & froze them :) I can`t get unwashed tripe at all here so I`m afraid I give them white tripe now & again as I think it must have some nutritional value. I have to pay full price for beef but the heart is cheap & it still costs me less at the who]esaler than the supermarket, also they cut it up for me as well now :)
Can you join up with other raw feeders & buy in bulk, can you get a freezer so you can buy when there`s special offers? It has taken me over 2yrs to find the right places to buy my stuff from, started off buying from supermarkets like you. Look for wholesale places that the butchers buy from, make friends with the butcher & if you buy your meat from him he might give you his off cuts cheaper or for free even. I never have to pay for meaty bones or carcasses now. Good luck.
Just do the best you can with what you can & keep looking around & don`t worry.

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christines !

I find it really interesting to read what "problems" people in other countries have.

I try to keep food for the dog under 3 euros/kg, and at least half under 2 euros. I can get just about anything from the cow/calf - from normal muscle meat,to liver, heart, tripe etc. I usually pay 1 euro/kg for the green tripe which is the cheapest thing Polly gets (apart from veg out of the garden LOL). I can also get anything from chickens/turkeys - wings, necks, backs, offal but there I have to buy 5 kg packs or in some cases 10 kg packs. I've just bought 10 kgs of fresh turkey necks which are brilliant but a third of Polly's freezer is full with them. Someone else was supposed to share but she never turned up. Will try to get someone else to share thru the German Forum here. Fish is very expensive here - we don't have much coastline !! Polly gets a small tin of sardines in oil once a week and I'm afraid thats it.

When I have a bit more room in the freezer, I shall visit one of the Turkish shops in the area - they usually sell lamb and can maybe give me some tips. Lamb is just not popular in Germany. I have no idea where to get hold of game, maybe the German BARF forum can help here too. As I already mentioned pork is rarely given to dogs here because it could be contaminated. (No problem for human consumption as it is cooked)

I must admit I wonder was people paid for complete pet food before they started barfing-so many say that raw feeding is cheaper. Polly didn't get cheap complete by any means but it was certainly cheaper than what I'm paying at the moment! I guess I'll have to continue my investigations.

Happy barfing and regards from Germany

Carol

Hi All
My hubby shoots, mainly rough shoot Rabbits etc. Hes a Veggie so although i eat a few and the ferretts some i often have extra. Can I feed them to the Elkies and if so is it better raw or cooked. Also what about other game, is it better raw.
Also anyone no where I can get small amounts of chicken etc, only have 2 girls and a small freezer, all the ads I've seen need large orders.
Thanks

Half a whole rabbit as it comes fur and all will make a very nice meal for each Elkhound. Just insure they are wormed regularly. :D

I once gave my lot (3 of them at the time a whole rabbit to see what they would do with it).. At first they were clueless, but once I started on it for them, exposing some of the flesh they demolishe the lot, not a hair was left, and their digestion was perfect, and I could not tell from their poos that they had eatenfur and claws.

Now If I( new someone who bagged bunnies. I would certyainly get some into the freezer. That really is TV dinners for natural dogs, can't get much more complete :D.

<<but once I started on it for them>> Brainless! I now have visions of you on your hands and knees, gnawing a carcase ... !! :D

I heard she just ripped the ear off with her teeth :D :D :D ;-)

Carol,
What are the prices like in LIDL and ALDI?? over here in Wales they are pretty good, not as good as an abbatoir but better than other supermarkets and shops. Our family in Germany always shop there because the prices are so good and the food is very high quality.

Regards
Dill

LOL @ J/G & Sarah :D

Christine, Spain.

Nah I do that with my talking :D :D :D

What I did was exposed some of the flesh with my kitchen snips.

Hi P/Nemus, you could join BriBarf UK, they have all the addresses & tel no`s. of raw meat suppliers for animals. Your Elkies would love rabbits I`m sure, it`s very good for them, specially after you`ve started on it for them Like B/Less :D

Christine, Spain.

Cooking rabbit stinks!!!!!! Do it raw.

However, if like me your dogs work, take the skins off, otherwise you can end up with them eating their retrieves instead of bringing them back :O

They can have just about any type of game, raw, bones too. With Red venison only fetching 20p a lb at present its not worth selling it on so mine are about to gain a freezer full. Even cheaper than the slaughter house. :D

Hi Carol, me too!!! :) Must say tho I think raw feeders are so lucky in the UK, they have so many choices :)
I try to keep my costs about the same as you but I don`t always succeed :( I have to buy in bulk to keep the costs down & when the dogs took over my small freezer I bought a chest one, six mths later I got another one, both in the sales as well & it was the best thing I ever did. That way I have room for things on special offer & I don`t have to shop for them everyday like when I first started feeding raw. How long have you been feeding raw Carol? It was costing me roughly £10 a day to feed my lot when I started, so a lot more than the complete stuff but now I`ve found the wholesaler who`s happy to sell to me it`s a lot cheaper than the complete food with the added benefit of very low vets bills :D
Have you thought of joining BritBarf UK? It`s a yahoo group & you might find someone from Germny on it who`d give you some help locating wholelsalers/abbatoirs etc. You have hunters over there don`t you, maybe making contact with them, maybe thru magazines, you might find some game meats?
I used to worry about not being able to provide lamb but now I don`t & I don`t have a problem giving them pork, think under EU rules it`s all to the same standard in EU countries now?
Arrrgggggh, the things we go thru for these dogs eh??? Never mind I`m sure you`ll get there in the end :D

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine !

Have now joined up with BritBarf and have just sent off my first message. I've noticed a couple of messages from a Christine in Spain - I presume that's you ?
I wonder how many other Champdoggers I shall find there !!

Regards from Germany

Carol

Hi Carol thats great & yep thats the same me :D You`ll find quite a few of us there, but sometimes just lurking!
Just twigged, are you the same Carol asking about worms???

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine !

No that's not me ! I have to worm Polly with a certain kind of tablet once a year before we travel to the UK. Otherwise I don't bother. I've only posted one message so far, as carolandherbert,  about holidays in Cornwall. See you at BritBarf !

Carol

Oooo sorry Carol take no notice of me senior moment.....or 2 or 3 get so many of them nowadays :D :D

Christine, Spain.

Have not got a clue what swine pest is (although swine can be a pest and pests can be swine) :).

You won't necessarily have a problem if you lack variety in your feeding but I think it is a useful idea.

Personally I would look at my oils and ask myself why am I feeding them and what do I want the dog to get out of it. In general oils are fed to ensure adequate intake of Omega 3s; most diets, commercial or fresh are heavily Omega 6 weighted because commercial foods are grain based and meat is grain fed. Therefore you want to be looking at Fish Body Oils rather than sunflower, olive, or rapeseed oils. Alternatively some people feed flaxseed oil (linseed) however this can have itch problems in some dogs. If you feed FBO (1000mg/day) then you would probably look at giving Vit E (200 - 400 iu/day) as well as this has a synergistic effect.

I get my meat from various sources, chicken wholesaler, end of day supermarkets, friends returned slaughtered meat, free bones from various sources. All the meat I feed is for human consumption apart from the green tripe I buy frozen from the pet shop.

Hello everyone !
Just had a bit of a google about the pig problem which I called pest. The official name is aujeszky, and is sometimes called pseudo rabies as the symptoms are very similar. Pigs and rats are hosts to the herpes type virus, humans can't be infected but other animals can by eating the meat or being bitten by an infected animal. Apparently the disease can theoretically be found anywhere, but I know for instance that Switzerland has been declared free while Westphalia here in Germany have had cases. If the disease is detected it has to be made public the same as foot and mouth. Maybe the UK isn't affected the same as there is no rabies.

I'm a member of a German Barfer site and I've never heard of anyone here giving their dogs raw pork. We also wouldn't find any commercial dog or cat food containing pork here in Germany.

To the question about Aldi and Lidl - Aldi has nothing of interest for Polly except maybe frozen cod which is still rather expensive (about 5 euros/kg). I've not investigated Lidl yet. I suppose lamb is just not as common here so we don't have many sources where I could buy dog food.

I shall have a look at the different oils tho.

Thanks for all your replies

Carol