Hello Fellow Pet Lovers
Can you get a pedigree dog kc reg if you have no papers at all.I know it is a bit of a daft question but any constructive information would be welcomed.

No question is daft if you don't know the answer :)
I'm no expert, but would think not. I'm sure more knowledgable folk will be along later.

liberty

Only the breeder of the dog can register a dog and both parents need to have been registered too. Unless you want to register the dog as a Activity dog and then I think you can do so but not sure about how you go about that. Take a look here click on registration.

:( Is there no way you could get his/her papers?

Would not help Wishfairy only the breeder can register the dog they have produced. The best and only way is to ask the dogs breeders to register the dog for you and offer to pay the costs. But even then it can only be done if the dogs parents are registered and fulfil the other criteria that the KC lay down

When you say you have no papers, do you mean you know that the dog wasn't registered?
If not, do you know who the breeder is?
If not, you will only be able to register on the Working register (for Obedience/agility etc.)

Jackie - just as a matter of interest is there a time limit on registering litters? And what's to stop people regitering pups that aren't really from their litter (saying the bitch had 6 pups when she only has 3 then registering another litter alongside IYSWIM)

Does it all run on trust or does KC have a way of checking up on it - just occured to me that I won't have a clue as I'll (hopefully) be collecting my new pup from the home of the sire not the bitch

The phantom puppy trick has been done many times :( I won't tell you why, others may decide to try it on.

Is there anything we can do to be sure of a pedigree then?

The breeder I'm using is well respected and I trust him but there's a lot of people churning out puppies to make money and this sounds like the kind of stunt they'd pull :(

Ask questions, see the paperwork (Pedigrees, hip results, eye tests and the like) and be prepared to walk away if you start to get doubts. The breeder will ask you questions and should expect you will ask some too. Don’t expect to see the stud dog, (I would wonder if it was a planned litter if you could!) but I would definitely want to see the dam. The appearance of the dam may well have suffered with the feeding of the puppies but the temperament should still be there to see.

Regards, John

Hi John, I agree that you cant expect to see the Stud Dog everytime you go to look at pups, but why would "you wonder" if you could with a planned litter? Apart from our recent AI and trip to USA litters we almost always used our own dogs on the American Cockers. If a breeder has taken years and years to develop a succesful, healthy, highly regarded kennel should they be treated with suspicion becasue they use there own superior quality dogs?
bye Gwen

Hi Gwen.
Note I said "I would wonder" not that I would rule the puppy out. In my experience only the bigger breeders and puppy farmers have both dogs and bitches. (Not meaning that the big breeders are puppy farmers :) ) Certainly in the larger breeds having both dogs and bitches, particularly when housed in doors, can create big problems.

Unless a person has quite a few bitches, buying a dog to mate with a bitch would not be a good idea. Let’s face it, the best you could do would be to repeat the mating. You could not use the dog on it's own daughters. Once a mating has happened the question then is, would you want to repeat the mating? My feelings are that unless it was an exceptional success, possibly no. My feelings would be, done that, got the tee shirt, now lets see if we can do better elsewhere.

Best wishes, John

Hi again John, perhaps we should clarify these type of opinions then, I have no idea what type/size dog the original poster was asking about. Perhaps it is unusual for many breeders in larger breeds to have both parents, and may be a 'red flag' to consider. However, in smaller breeds and particularly toys lots of oeople keep more than 1 dog, using them on own bitches as well as standing them for others use. It would be quite normal to be able to see both parents. The point I was trying to make is that we should be careful when laying down these sort of guidelines for novices - clarifying points with specifics (eg "in lareger breeds it would be unusual..."). Could be turning someone away from a wonderful caring breeder with no cause at all.

bye
Gwen

I can only speak from my experiences Gwen. I have no knowlege of yours. As I said, I would be worried if I could see both sexes and would want to know more about the reasons for breeding. I think this is fair comment and worth remembering for the novice or the experienced alike.

Regards, John

Hi Wishfairy, without going into details of all the dodges run by people when doing fake registrrations I just want to say (yet again) that a KC registration document is only as accurate as the information given by the breeder/applicant. No checking, verification, etc is done. Sometimes errors occur genuinely, sometimes deliberate falsehoods are put on the forms. All the KC check for is to see that the registered owners of the Dog and Bitch whose names are recorded on the form are as recorded on the computer. The rest of the routine checks are to make sure the bitch is not over 8 or under 1 and that no breeding restrictions are placed on either dog. No verification that they actually are the parents, how many pups, colours, sexes, or that the pups are really purebred. Reputable breeders take every care. Who knows what the rest do until a complaint crops up over some of the blatant cheating.
bye
Gwen

I would wonder as well. Especially if the breeder only owned those 2 dogs.

Hi Anwen, well I would certainly ask if they only owned the 2. But as I said before many good and succesful breeders often use their own dogs, and so would have them available to see. I am all in favour in guiding novices, just dont want to give them red flags for the wrong reasosn.
bye
Gwen

Hi wishfairy,

The normal time limit for registering a litter is 12 months. However, after this pups can be registered at a cost of about £50 each. It is therefore definetly in the breeders financial interest to register before the first birthday!
bye

Gwen

You can reg any dog with the KC but only on the working reg if you cant get the paper work but then you would not be able to show or breed from the dog only rully for the working abilty of the dog flyball,Obedence agility .

Likewise the companion dog register.
bye
Gwen

Thanks for all the replies :)