is it ok to mix some roast chicken in with a complete food? and what about minced chicken an turkey should it be cooked and if so what way should it be cooked?

You can add meat to complete so long as you are doing it more as flavouring rather than as a substantial portion of his diet.

People have different view on whether raw is better than cooked meat, so take your pick based on your own views.

I feed my own dog a complete food (Naturediet) and then she gets table scraps - veg as well as meat.

Stacey

A little meat added to complete shouldn't do any harm. But if you want to feed raw meat use beef, chicken and turkey needs to be cooked as it carries salmonella.

I usually use a microwave to cook meat for my dogs, wait until it cools before feeding of course.

Think there are a lot more nasty germs than e-choli & salmonella on other animals bottoms & poops that my dogs have a keen interest in, than will ever be found in raw chicken & turkey :) Also you should see the state of some of the things they dig up, dead & alive

Christine, Spain.

Whether you choose to feed raw or cooked meat is up to you and your personal preference. As dogs were designed to eat raw meat and have much stronger stomach acids than us salmonella, e-coli, campylobacter etc should prove no problem to a dog with a healthy immune system. However I would not add raw meat to commercial food as, because of the differing enzymatic actions involved, both foods are digested at differing rates which can cause problems. If you feed twice a day you could feed complete at one meal and raw at another.

I have fed my dogs completely raw for over two years and neither they nor I have had any problems in this area. Immune compromised dogs will, however be prone to upset and commercially fed dogs are just as likely to suffer from the above complaints; they are after all dogs that lick their own bottoms, eat animal excrement etc etc :)

"However I would not add raw meat to commercial food as, because of the differing enzymatic actions involved, both foods are digested at differing rates which can cause problems. "

Mixing raw with commercial food is absolutely fine and will not cause problems.

Pitcairn, who is a vet and has a PhD in veterinary immunology, virology and biochemistry, in his book on Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, even includes a recipe for fresh (raw) meat supplement for dry commercial dog food. All his complete home made dog food recipes combine a grain of some kind (a major ingredient in commercial foods, as you know) with raw meat.

I am not advocating Pitcairn, but I am sure if there were a real problem in mixing raw with commercial foods he would know about it.

Stacey

I mix raw and commercial and don't have any problems with it. In fact Bess is much better for adding the raw (I do half/half all at the same meal) She has more energy and her coat is looking thick and luxurient, never looked so good. :)
The only reason I haven't gone on to fully raw feeding is I haven't sourced enough food yet to be sure I can keep it going but I'm happy with the improvement made so far.

Kath

Never had a problem with mixing raw and complete. the dogs enjoy it and if thats the case im happy!
All this about it upseting the balance etc is nonsense, never believed a word and mine have turned out great because of it!

Ok now I`m never too sure what kibble means. I thought it was mixer, but maybe it means complete?? Tell me what what you all class kibble as please :)
Pitcairn also specifically states *lets start with something simple.....If you`re not ready to jump the whole hog*.... *....good quality dog kibble such as those sold at natural food stores. Resist any temptation to simplify these additions by just throwing a slab of meat or a dash of oil on the kibble rather than following the recipe as given. Meat is dramatically low in calcim as compared with its phosphorus content, so could result in a net dietary calcium deficiency........Extra oil by itself is counterproductive as it will lower the overall percentage of protein & every other nutrient in the kibble.....*
The recipe he gives yeilds a total amount of slightly more than 2 cups & you use a quarter of it per every cup of kibble.
So a bit off topic I know re raw & complete & different digestion times but he doesn`t recommend just meat or oil added, he gives a balanced recipe supplement & says don`t stray from recipe given :)

Christine, Spain.

I always thought it was ground cereal made into biscuits but I may be wrong. :)

Kath

<Ok now I`m never too sure what kibble means. I thought it was mixer, but maybe it means complete??>

Kibble is another name for extruded complete foods. The food is rendered, then cooked at a high temperature. It is then forced through a die a high pressure to produce the typical nugget shaped pieces of complete food. the nuggets are then sprayed with oil to improve palatibility.
There is also the old-fashioned flaked variety of food, such as the the old Vitalin range, which is flaked, mixed in with maize flakes, dried vegetables etc and has the appearance of rabbit food.

snomaes

I've just looked it up in various dictionaries and on the Web and two of the dictionary entries were

Verb.. "To crush or grind (grain, for example) coarsely"
Noun... "Meal ground by this process and used in the form of pellets especially for pet food"

From what I've read the old definition means cereal but it now means complete foods. So we're both right! :D

Kath.

Ah well, as if there isn`t enough confusion already :) :)
I know some of the older breeders talk about kibble & they mean biscuit mixer, cos quite a few still feed mixer & raw meat, so I think sometimes there could be a bit of mix up if people are thinking kibble means mixer when they mean complete or vice vesa. Do you think everyone in the states calls complete kibble & we just take it kibble means complete now ?

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine,
You could be right with your American theory. The Longman web dictionary says "kibble (noun) especially American English small round pieces of dry dog food"

Kath :)

Ah well Kath, it`d make life too easy if it had the same meaning everywhere wouldn`t it :D

Christine, Spain.

:D :D :D

Hi Christine,

Yup, re adding large quantities of meat or any added ingredient to complete - that's why in my initial post I said:
"You can add meat to complete so long as you are doing it more as flavouring rather than as a substantial portion of his diet. " Most people who want to add meat to dry complete do so in order to get their dogs to eat the dry stuff more readily - which is more a case of the cart coming before the horse, me thinks.

Raw and complete may have different digestion times -- but when they are mixed they pass through and out of the body at the same time. The intestinal track passes food by muscular like action and it isn't sophisticated enough to separate fully digested from partially digested food. So assuming there is little meat in proportion to the dry complete - the complete is going to go through at about the same rate at does without the meat. Net - it's not a problem. The meat will be fully digested and the dry will be fully digested, or as fully as it ever gets. A small home experiment illustrates the results - if you feed the dog it's regular meal and add some coarsely chopped nuts - when the meal makes it's way out the other end the nuts will be come out the back end the same as they went in the front end, but its regular meal will have been processed as normal. :-)

In the case of someone who wants to feed half meat and half dry complete, then I agree that the two should be served as separate meals. Otherwise, some of the nutrients from the dry complete may not be fully absorbed. However, I think most people asking about adding meat to dry food are doing it to enhance the taste of the dry, rather than as a main source of food.

Stacey

thanks for everyones replys,i think i am slightly more confused now,than i was before i posted,but will take everyones opinions onboard.the last couple of days i have gave suki some raw minced beef along with her complete and she has devoured it,what about raw chicken fillets would they be ok to give?

Any raw meat is fine; my dogs are fed 60% raw chicken (usually wings/thighs/legs/carcases including the bone)

Hi Billybob,

Sorry about the extra confusion! :-)

The point we are making is that you need to be careful that your dog's diet is properly balanced. If you like the idea of adding raw meat to complete, than I recommend Pitcairn's book, "Natural Health for Dogs & Cats." It is an easy read and explains about the vitamins and minerals a dog needs. Plus, it has lots of recipes for homemade diets and good information about holitistic health care. Meat by itself is not a nutritionally complete food. Its biggest failing is that without bone, it does not have sufficient calcium (and phosphorous) for dogs. So, if you are regularly adding it in quantity, rather than using it as a flavour enhancer (a few tablespoonfuls to coat the dry food), then you need to start thinking about supplements.

Pitcairn has a recipe for supplementing dry complete with meat. Meat in his recipe represents about 20% of the volume you feed your dog (1/4 cup meat mix to 1 cup of dry complete). You need to add extra calcium and other vitamins, which essentially makes the raw meat a complete food in itself. Pitcairn has his own recipe for a vitamin and mineral supplement, of course. You could use a shortcut, which is to buy a good quality dog vitamin and mineral tablet and give you dog 1/4 to 1/2 the recommended dose, depending on how much meat your are adding to the complete.

I guess it is confusing. :-) Interesting, nonetheless. Raw chicken fillets are fine.

Stacey

Hi Stacy, yes agreed, when given just to encourage dogs to eat its not a problem :)
What bothers me tho is is people who are new to dog feeding/owning thinking it`s OK to give their dog`s X amount of raw/cooked food on top of the complete & unbalancing the whole thing that could lead to problems.
By the way, I`ve read quite a few posts of people giving tinned tuna in oil to their dogs, well I read a couple of weeks ago that all tinned tuna has had it`s wonderful oils extracted before being tinned so you`re not getting any benefit of tuna fish oil, only the oil it`s canned in which is normally veg/sunflower oil. That was a new one on me!!!!

Christine, Spain.

once again thank's to everyone,i think i will buy pitcairns book and take it from there.

"In the case of someone who wants to feed half meat and half dry complete, then I agree that the two should be served as separate meals. Otherwise, some of the nutrients from the dry complete may not be fully absorbed."

Hi Stacey, :)
I feed both together and have noticed a big improvement in Bess, but even when I was only feeding complete alone (rabbit-food muesli type) a lot of the grains and flakes pass through undigested. In fact if I didn't get it picked up straight away the hens used to break up the poo and have an extra meal. Eeewww! :D I don't know if it's cos there's less grain or more meat now but they don't do it now she's on half raw.

Kath.