hello, my 4 year old bitch is pregnant for the first time, she has a full pedigree but the sire dose not, the good news is that he is also a full ***, he came from a rescue home, I have contacted them for his papers but they do not have any. I know this will hinder the selling of the pups but I feel I cannot give them away. This was a terrible accident that happened and a feel guilty as hell, any advice would be gratefully appreciated. Thankyou

Admin edit: terms of service. Advertising removed

What was the terrible accident - the mating - or the fact that you cannot get the sire's papers???

If it was such an accident, why did you not take your bitch straight to the vet's, where she could have had the equivalent of the "morning after" injection?? It might be better to talk to your vet now about terminating the pregnancy.

You could well be responsible for up to a dozen more ***s, who could finish up in rescue homes :(

Margot

As you don't know the full story behind the sire you cannot be sure of his temperament or any genetic health problems he has in his make up.
I would take Margot's advice and try your hardest to get the pregnancy terminated. You have a responsibility to the pups and their new owners as well as your bitch. Do you want to be responsible for providing families with a dog with temperament or health problems? I wouldn't.
Everyone makes mistakes. Even the top breeders have tripped up somewhere along the line i am sure!
Good luck with sorting this little problem out, i hope all goes well!

Thankyou for your reply, as to the sires health and temerament I am lucky he is a fine dog in all respects of his breed standard, in fact more so than my bitch. Both dogs have good temperamnets and are good in the field and home, I think any offspring would be sound in all aspects. I have been in touch with the kennel club and we are trying to trace his background, after all you don't just pick a dog up from nowhere, do you.

Hello, the terrible accident was that the mating I am not botherd about the papers, I think a good dog is a good dog wether it has papers or not. What I am bothered about is matching the dogs with good people. The fact that the pups will not have papers does not make them inadequate dogs for work or for an active family, I also believe that having papers for a dog does not mean that owners are always perfect and most dogs in rescue homes have come from owners with papers, but I thankyou for your comments however negative they might have been.

OK Charlotte - you've accepted the responsibility, and you know you've got a hard job ahead of you - good luck!!

What temperament have both dogs got - are they both comfortable with people? children? other dogs & cats? Are they both "biddable" & have been easy to train? Have either of them done the Good Citizens scheme? All these points would make settlign the pups into permanent homes easier. If you wish, I could send you my "puppy questionnaire" which I send out to people interested in Aussie pups, when we have them which you could adapt for your use.

Otherwise - finding good homes is really a lot of "gut" instinct - it's not easy at the best of times - believe it or not, we exchanged emails for 4 weeks with one family & it wasn't until they actually came to SEE the puppies that they realised that our breed was a docked breed - something that we accepted so much as a matter of fact that we hadn't even raised the point but which obviously can be a problem for others. You raise the puppies for 6-8 weeks, and the bond between you is strong & to misquote the Ford advert - it may be YOUR dog - but it's OUR baby!

Come back & post again - we help where we can.

Regards
Margot

Thankyou for your message, I am very gratefull for all the advice I can get, our vetinarian is telling me one thing(just leave her to it, she will be fine), but I feel like I am expecting myself, I want to do all I can for my bitch, she is as you say my baby. I know the sire is not registered with the kennel club in the UK, but I have traced his origins to Ireland, form there I have it a dead end, but both dogs are fantasic animals, they are extremley biddable and love nothing better than hanging around the family. I feel any offspring of these two dogs would be just as biddable and even tempered as their parents. The sire is not my dog, he belongs to my uncle,and although he came as a 2 year old dog he has settled into the family as if he has always been there. The dam (my dog) has been with me since she was 10 weeks old and I have to say she has been nothing but a joy to me and my son. Now you know a little about them you can see why it is so important for me to make sure these pups go to as good a home as their parents, I would be very interested in any tips you can give on interviewing prospective parents, I could also do with some advice on what I can do without the sire's papers. Thankyou again

I do apologise for being so negative! I don't mean to be so mean if you know what im saying lol.

You know your dog, we have never met him. I am sure you would not purposly put out any badly temperamented pups. We get so upperty about it because of the inheritability factor when it comes to temperament.

Finding good, loving, responsible homes for pups is every breeders nightmare. There is only so much you can do. I have done a few home checks, drawn up questionnaires and interrogated prospective buyers till ive been blue in the face. But, unfortunately, nothing is fool proof. The book of the Bitch has a very good section on finding homes for pups and gives an example of a questionnaire. You'll just have to use your judge of character and gut instinct.

I'm sure everything will just work out fine for you and your dogs. I wish you all the luck in the world with the rest of the pregnancy and in finding homes for the little ones when they are of age!

Thankyou for your reply, I have taken on your comments and after reading up on all the dogs that are in rescue homes I understand your concerns, it would break my heart to think of one of my bitch's pups going to a home where they were not treated well or that a family just got bored with them, I do need advice on prospective owners, the questionaire that I have made is a little strict to say the least , I don't think anyone will be up to scratch so any help would be appreciated. At the moment my bitch (Belle) is doing extremley well, I just can't seem to calm her walks down as you will probably know dogs are renowned for ther energy and she is no exception, she has just hurt her paw trying to climb a tree believe it or not , after a cat, the accident occured as she slid down the tree trunk when she realised she couldn't climb, it's nothing to worry about but she has a slight limp at the moment. Anyway thankyou again.

Hi

I cant offer much advice. But i was in a similar situation as yourself with the papers. My girl has all papers, dad didnt have any, and the mating was accidental. I found what i believe to be great homes through questioning and gut instinct. I believe quite strongly in going with your instincts. i turned away a couple of people just by speaking to them on the phone as i didnt like their manner!!!. I cant really offer much advise re mum as i have only done it once, But it is a greaT EXPERIENCE, oh and get plenty of sleep yourself before the due date cause you dont get much afterwards!!!

Hope all is well
Brinny

I can understand your worries, vetting new owners is hard and I thought long and hard before I mated my bitch earlier this year. Of course I was concerned for her well being and I hadn't had a litter for seven years so it was like having a litter for the first time, but my main worry was finding the right homes and often you have to turn down people if there is any doubt in your mind about their suitablilty I turned down quite a few over the phone and even when the pups have left you they remain your puppies for life. Just read everything you can the "Book of the Bitch" is a bible so try and get a copy and just ask everyone you can think of for advice. Please email me if you have any questions and I will try and help.

hello just thought I would let you know that we are now the happy parents of 10 beautiful pups, there wa nothing that could of prepared me for the birth, even the vet had never seen anything like it, she ahd 6 on thursday and 4 on friday, a very long and hard birth, but mother is doing very well and so are the pups, the vet could not believe how big and fat they were, next to having my son, these pups have been one of the pleasurable experiences I have had, if had my way I would keep them, I am hoping for a LOTTERY win. My Bitch Belle is enjoying all the attention, i think maybe a little too much, anyway thankyou again for your advice,

Admin edit again. Read the forum terms of service before you make any more posts

Glad that everything has gone so well! Now is the time to enjoy them....!! :)

Let us know how they get on.

Don't forget - by Terms of Service for this forum, you can't be seen to be advertising the puppies!

One word of warning: I've just realised that they will be 6 weeks at Christmas - do what we did last year, and insist that they cannot go until they are at least 8 weeks old.

Margot

Hope everything goes well.Now im gonna be jumped on straight away.But everyone assumes that if they havent got papers they are some kind of demons that should never be bred from.But i know of some kc reg dogs of my breed and they are horrible little ankle biters.makes them no better cause they have papers,doesnt make their temperament or attitude to other dogs any different.And the dogs in question are kc reg and at some point have or will be shown.And are approved to certain bitches.Only my opinion.
So you do everything you can for your bitch.I mean why on earth should she go and have the pregnancy terminated?????Maybe to her it isnt the end of the world.Like a lot of people seem to think.Its not as if the kc only register top quality dogs of outstanding temperament.So not all kc Reg dogs are what they are cracked up to be.I mean lets face it the kennel club arent that fussy at the end of the day as long as they are getting there money im not sure they really care.Its the caring breeders and the ones that go a long way to make there breed what it is that do the hard work.Ready now im gonna be the irresponsible one now,i use to register all my pups but now even though i occasionally still have litters i dont.I have all the relevant tests done for my pups and only use the dogs that i own or a friend has the same dogs and we know the background of all hers,so maybe hers.
I also have them vet checked vaccinated and dont just sell to anyone i am very particular,And then if they cant cope or are having difficulties with the pup,i am there 24/7 without fail.
Sorry to go off the track slightly im just simply saying just cause they arent kc reg doesnt make you bad

Unfortunately the point of the papers is being able to study the dogs in both pedigrees. both parents as the poster has said appear to be in excelelnt physical and mental shape. what the poster will not be able to determine is if say the sires parents had particular faults. Temperament faults for example can often come out in later generations and be traced to a particular ancestor. the same thing can be true of health.

Has either parent been Hip Scored?

So many poor temepered Pups (registered 9r unregistered) are the result of just two of a breed being put together with no thought or in this case knowledge of the background.

We all know that more often than not our children inherit traits from their Grandparents, like uncle Seans red hair Aunt Millies quick temper.

The fact that the pups are unable to be registered may put off some of the best likely owners, as those knowledgeable pewople will be looking for a well bred dog with full history and back up of experienced breeders. I know that is what I would do.

That is why such a mistake, even when within the same breed is best sorted before a pregnancy gets too far along. A large litter of such a workaholic breed will be a real nightmnare to home suitably.