Hi ppl, ive just taken on from a friend a bitch which he says is an irish Staffy, she is clearly bigger and more muscular than a normal staffy but i cant find anything anywhere about irish staffs.

any1 know anything about them or where i could get some more information?

Thanks

Andy

Irish staffs can be traced back to the Midlands England, the Irish selectively bred their staffs to breed a bigger dog, these dogs are reputed to be the foundation dogs of the American Pitbull and American staffs. I have a great book some where i will try and find it and give you details.

thanks, that would be greatly appreciated.... am a little concerned about how agressive she will become after searchin around on the net and finding nothing other than a newspaper article about a girl being attacked! Ive got her young and im makin sure she gets plenty of socialisation and have had no problems so far.

How old is she Andy ??
Mr Murphy who often frequents the board can tell you loads about Irish staffys as he owns them - just have to wait for him to pop on .
Unless you are afraid of that bruisin Mick after all the kitchen insinuations the other day ??? ;) :D

lol only new to this so have no idea what your talkin about (sounds like i dont wanna either lol)

shes about 10 months, is white with a black eye and a patch on her back, is built like a minibus too lol, is really funny to watch this little legged barn door running around playing. Not as funny when she comes running back and decides to stop by diving into your legs lol

Hi Andy, if you go back to tues 9th sept on general you will see a thread about irish staffs there, i also put a link on it all about them. hope this helps :)

Hi Andy.

E mail me. Just click on my name above and you will get my e mail address. I dont know what book pib has got but its either completely wrong or they havent read it right. The ISBT is certainly not the foundation dog of the APBT. I know. I have owned both. The debate on the ISBT has been flogged to death on this board. if we take it to e mail I will give you all the info you need.

As for Lel. She is just a bit confused you see. Something to do with being a women I think. Confusion. Its a womans thing.

Regards Mick.

Cheeky bu***r ;)

Hi Andy,
Sorry didn't see this post before, she sounds lovely why did your friend give her up?

10 months is not old at all in fact an enjoyable age I think. Is she friendly toward other dogs?

Staffords don't go aroung you they go through you, at least all of mine have, they only stop when hitting a brick wall :D

Karen

she's great with eveything snd every1 up to now - weve met dogs of all sizes, joggers, people walkin, on bikes, ducks, geese, swans, and goats and nothing more than a sniff and a snort lol have only heared her bark once and that was because she wanted my chicken and i was ignoring her

he gave her up because he had 2 of them and they were pretty much running amock and he couldnt control them.

wouldnt believe it to see her here though, if we arnt outside then shes asleep!

Hello PIB.

There are hundreds of books on the history of the APBT. Only about 10% of these will be any where near accurate. What book is it and who wrote it. As for the ISBT being the foundation dog for the APBT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Well.

Mick

I have not had chance to look yet but i will give details.As i said they are reputed to be behind the APBT and yes you are correct depends on the book you read but who's to say that you are correct! and what book have you written on the subject!

I dont write books. However when it comes to my breed of dog I do know as I made a point of finding out. The APBT has been on planet earth a lot longer than the isbt. As for who says I am right?. I do. Unlike some people I have a habit of not opening my mouth when I am unsure or dont know what I am talking about. Due to the breeds of dogs we are talking about people get the wrong end of the stick because people know nothing about them and just spout hearsay and gossip about these breeds. If you search my posts for the last year you will find that I dont volunteer wrong information on any other breeds of dog as I dont know much about them. What type of dogs have or do you own?.
The ISBT is not "reputed to be behind the APBT. Its the other way about. The ISBT is getting the name of being an APBT in disguise. This has no foundation at all as they are totally different breeds. The ISBT does conform to size shape colour etc where the APBT does not. Just as someone who has been into one breed of dog for a very long time can spot a member of their breed that is not a full pedigree as its had something else crossed through its lines at some time or another. So can I. I got my first bull terrier in 1967. Since then I have had staffs (rescued) APBT (rescued) ISBTs (not rescued) and other cross bred bullys that have been rehomed by me. I do know a (very) little bit about them.

Regards Mick

You have done your research but you could of only obtained the information from other people who have written books on this particular subject. Because you have chosen one theory and not another does not make you correct. This can be said for any historical event, depends on what theory you choose to believe and as none of us were around when all this was going on, we can only read and make our own minds up.

What type of dogs do you have.

Also you have made your mind up wrong. You are the only person I have ever heard stating that the ISBT is the foundation for the APBT.(LOVL) When the APBT went to America from our shores with the settlers for the new world the ISBT was not even thought of. Its a relatively new breed. You have your own theory and that is obvious from the lack of substance behind it.
If you dont want to learn thats okay. It takes a lot more intelligence to listen and learn than to waffle a lot of crap. Go and give some other breed a hard time bad name etc and leave mine alone.
Goodbye and have a nice life. Mick

Hi Pib,

Sorry but you are wrong, ISBT are not the foundation of APB or AmStaffs. Im sure I'm right Mr Murphy should be along and confirm if I'm a complete idiot or not.

But I don't think you are right. Sorry

Karen

I thought the Irish were bred to be game dogs originally ? Not fighting ? As in killing rats etc ?
although I have read the Psycho lines were used for fighting

yeay - my first post and i start a debate lol

:D @ andy

Andy as long as it's not the last post you start a debate with your should fit in well :D

Karen

im pretty sure ull find wherevers theres a good argument, ill be there lol

Hi Andy
like Karen I have a Staffy of similar age . Whats her name and have you owned bull breeds before ?

no, shes my first bull, seems like shes gonna be a new challenge lol. anything i should be wary of?

Hi Andy I also have an ISBT and have had him from a pup- he's 2 now and have never had a problem with him temperament wise. He's the perfect family dog he has all of the staffords nanny dog qualities, he's absolutely daft as a brush (same mentality as my 5 yr old), and I never have any aggression problems with other dogs , just occasional over enthusiasm, like all dogs they need to be well socialised and good training other than that have fun with her she sounds lovely!

I think you are confusing the word "Game" (as in wild animals hunted for sport) with "Game" or "Gamely" refering to the dogs willingness to fight.The Irish dogs were reputed to be very Gamey

I dont think the hextons have a dog. Maybe the fox terrier on wheels with the red handle. They are just winding up people deliberately. I will not respond to them anymore.

Mick

:D :D @ Mr Murphy!!!

Sit down and take a deap breath Mr Murphy! I think that lel had the wrong end of the stick when he or she thought that the Irish dogs were bred for game and not for being game two totally different things.
Can you answer me this with out throwing your toys out of the pram, why do people in America still use the term "old family" when refering to breed lines that can be traced back to Ireland.

Looks like I got the wrong end of the stick thought the whole idea was to debate! If it means you will reply to me on future issues Mr Murphy I will apologize for winding you up, I am not here to make enemies.

Firstly Lel is correct (as she usually is)the Irish did breed the dog originally as a game dog. Game for hunting that is, as they were mainly used for badgers as these were considered vermin years ago along with rats.

Secondly you still have not let me know what kind of dog you have. If any.

The only dog I know of that is referred to as old family is the old family red pit dog of Eire. I had one for 11 years.

Lastly I am not throwing my toys out of the pram as you put it. I just dont see the point in having a debate about something that is blatantly incorrect. I have told you you are incorrect and so have others. From your refusal to listen and accept you are wrong I can only assume you are being deliberately inflamatory or extremly dense and unable to accept you are wrong, which is basic ignorance

The traceable Irish strains I'm refering to are Colby,Corcoran,Gas house,Lightener and Semus not sure how many of these dogs were red but my guess is not many.
The book is at home i'm at work 15 miles away.
Convince me then!
I am neither ignorant or thick Mr Murphy.

Hextons, maybe you would like to explain to me why you are now using a second username?

Different computer, I'm at work

Wish I could find a job where I had time to use a forum :D

There are loads of traceable Irish dog lines. The only one referred to (by people who know) as old family dogs are the old family red.
I dont want to or feel the need to educate or convince you. If you dont want to know there isnt a lot I can do to convince you.

I dont beleive you even have a dog. If you do then go on convince me.

I am ending this topic here. Others can continue if they feel they must.
Mick

The book I refer to is The Book of The American Pit Bull Terrier by Richard F Stratton.Quote "I'll grant that there were undoubtedly a few importations from England,too,but my conversations with dog men whose lives extended back into the last century indicate that dogs were available from several countries,but the Irish dogs (and game chickens) were always the preferred stock because they were so renowned for their gameness.
I breed and train Spaniels but have a keen interest in all breeds of dog.

Admin edit: read the terms of service before you make any further posts please

Well Mr Murphy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Irish dogs that you refer to are the are the younger relatives of the bull/bear biters that came from europe to Britain. The APBT is the younger relative of these dogs. Colbys, Old Fam Reds etc. The Isbt is the result of breeding between several breeds of bull and terriers which is another debate completely. These include the old Irish bull biters younger relatives, along with the EBT, and the old type staffy. This would make the APBT the foundation stock for the ISBT not the other way around. The ISBT is a breed or cross breed (call it what you will) of bull and terriers. Ive even heard that kerry blue and wheaton have been used (not substantiated though.) The long and the short of it is that every bull terrier is a mix of bear biter blood and terrier blood and are all related.
As for the Richard F Stratton book. I read it in 1991, its been updated now with a newer version that I would like to read. What date was your copy published. There are several editions of it.

Now lets end this debate . Mick

Many of todays irish are the result of being bred down from the dogs sent over from England by such notable Stafford men as Bill Boylan and John F Gordon.

Hi Lel

Took me a while to figure out what PIB or hexton was going on about. I think I have it sussed now. They have been mistaking the ISBT for the dogs (Bull baiters/Apbt type dogs colbys old reds)that the Irish settlers took to the new world(USA)with them.

Mick

Staffie,
Thats one advantage of being your own boss.

the irish dogs that stratton is talking about are not irish staffs -they just happen to be from ireland but still are pitbulls.
colby pits are still one of the best pits about.but they are not the same or never have originated from irish staffs-which are a total different breed and only came about this and last century!
ps old family red nose - ofrn dogs were a great pitbull line that had dogs and bitches thrown with red colour,red noses,red eyes ,red nails etc

hi all
i have an  11 month Irish Staffordshire bull terrier, i thought that it was just a bigger type of Staffordshire bull terrier, i was rong . i had him at six weeks old and by the time he was 6 months he was the size of a small rottweiller . so i decided to do my research and found nothing but the i came across a book called the Staffordshire bull terrier  (English and Irish) i found out that the Irish Stafford is a back road to the pit bull terrier a way around the law and were I live uk b,ham the pit ball is an illegal breed of dog. But I continued to do my research I then found the breed was recognised bye the k.c. Manchester I have not found  any more info if I do I will get to you right away hope this helps
michaelxxx
p.s. a few links  
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/irishstaffordshirebullterrier.htm
http://www.geocities.com/c_leed/bullandterrier.html

There is no such thing as the KC Manchester and the ISBT is not recognised by the KC.  Can you paste the exact wording of what you have read and perhaps we can be of more help.

AN ISBT the size of a small rottweiler????
I have never seen an Irish looking anything like a Rotty and I have seen a fair few .
Maybe you just have a cross bred Staffy ? As there are no papers how on earth would you know and there are many unscrupulous people who breed to get bigger staffys and call them irish to impress :rolleyes:

Just taken a look at these links and they dont tell me anything whatsoever ?

Lel, I'm worried about the Manchester KC, ;) guess you know why!!!!!!!

I know exactly what you mean, Jackie. People being conned again.

to my complete disgust recently i have found just how many *"!&£*$*"*$&£*" < insert swear word here are passing off Pits as ISBT'S (as in this case i fear) and selling them off as such.

Saying that, some do just come out and say it - ive had a couple of people approach me recently and ask me if all ISBT's were pits as they had phoned a number in a paper (usually from around the birmingham or manchester) and inquired about pups to be told " you do know its a pitbull dont you" have even been offered one as stud myself.

had to really restrain from telling the guy just what i thought!!

really sickens me because these people who are only after breeding hard illegal dogs and making as much money as possible without any concern for the dogs are going to completely destroy my breed.

And theres sod all i can do about it.