Hi, I put down a £100 deposit for a Miniature Schnauzer puppy, by cheque, she was the last one in the litter to go out of three dogs and two bitches. The breeder was keeping the other bitch.

We have been over to see the puppy every week as the breeder said we could to see her progress and take photos etc, we were due to pick her up on Saturday (now thursday) and the breeder rang us up asking if we would mind swapping for the other bitch as a friend of hers told her that our bitch was better for showing than hers.

I said no I would rather keep the one I have been taking photos of and cuddeling for the last 7 weeks as most people would and she turned round and said "well you either swap or you can't have either and I will give your deposit back"

She is a registered breeder with the kennel club, and the puppies are now registered with the KC, what rights do I have?

Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks Kimble

She does not have to sell you the pup, don't like her behaviour but she has the whip hand. She can easily say she felt you would not provide a good home and decided not to let you have the pup. We know that is not true but sadly that is how it is, all I can say is she must have more trust in her friend than she does in her own ability to chose her puppy, lets hope her friend is wrong and you end up with the best one, because if you have set your heart on having a pup I expect you will agree to her totaly unreasonable request.

If you decide to take the pup that is offered you will still love it to bits but if you are so upset that you decide to look elsewhere then I hope you soon find another one that you can learn to love.

Hi...

Hmmm... I disagree with the first reply, I believe you do have rights. I'm not a lawyer but you do have a contract - the contract was for a particular pup for which you paid a deposit and agreed to collect on a certain date and pay the balance at that time.

I understand what the first reply said... they could turn round and say blah blah, or even that you didn't have the arrangement for the pup you have taken photos of.

If it were me I would do this... check all paperwork I have... what does the receipt for the deposit say... collect all the photos together, are you holding the pup in them etc.. Make another call and record the conversation going over again the arrangement and asking why they have changed their mind. [I believe this to be legal - but am not a lawyer so maybe someone could advise or you could check]. I would then get 1 of those cheap/free intro sessions with a solicitor and have their assesment of all the evidence of a contract you have. All would have to be done quick methinks... If you have a solid case - which would I think depend on what evidence that THAT pup was supposed to be yours - then maybe just the threat or a letter from a solicitor would be sufficient.

I suppose it comes down to how attached to that pup you have become, from what you said seems a fair bit. having a new pup just a few weeks with us we had become attached to him before he came home, and we would all have been very upset to have someone other than him. It must be miserable for you :(

I don't know if the breeder is a member of any breed club - or if the KC would have any interest from an ethics point of view, clearly some good breeders here that could advise better if there is any recourse that way.

A verbal contract is as binding as a written one - the difficulty of course is proving the verbal contract. I wish you luck whatever you decide to do.

regards Dave

Dave I think you are correct strictly speaking but even if there is a right in law it wont work if the breeder does not want it to. There would have to be a legal contract saying that that a particular puppy was the one that the deposit was left on and someway to prove which pup was which, and even then it would be full of loopholes.

Still think the poster would be best advice to either accept the terms or look elsewhere I really do not believe that it is worth perusing unless they had a contract drawn up by a lawyer in the first place and the puppy is clearly distinguishable from the date of the payment of the deposit. There is no point in telling this distressed person that there is a way around the disappointment, IMHO there is not.

Hi...

I agree. If there is no evidence of a contract - and a verbal contract is legal in my understanding - then they can't progress. That's why I suggested they gather all their evidence - like the deposit receipt... was there a name of the dog for instance... what did those photos show/imply - and talk to a solicitor if they feel strongly enough. If there is a right in law then it doesn't matter what the breeder now wants. The problem of course is that something like this could drag on for months or longer if the breeder dug in, making it probably best to move on.

As to telling the person there is a way round the disappointment - I didn't, but did and still say there MAY be - only they will know what evidence of the verbal contract they have, and to have that checked with a solicitor. They came here with a cry for help and suggestions.

I think it's outrageous what this breeder has allegedly done. I am sure that the vast majority of caring and responsible breeders would probably be more miffed by this than anyone. We have only heard one side though, and every story has 2 slants.

Regards Dave

[deleted]

to be honist if i were you i wouldent bother even taking the other pup. why give this lady your money if shes going to treat you like that!. if your going to take up the argument that the pups the one you put a deposit down for do it in writing and send it recorded delivery . make sure you have the evidence , and if you want to take it up then do! , you can take her to the small claims court for about £50 i belive but if you loose, which i doubt you will . then you will have to pay the court fee's.
i Hope you get it all sorted .
Lady xxxxxxxxxx

After all is said and done the puppies are the breeders, and surely they are entitled to keep whichever of the pups they think best for themselves, after all one breeds for oneself first and foremost.

They could easily have given you whichever pup and you would have been none the wiser, as in a breed like this where the colour is the same for all pups only the breeder could tell you who is who. The pups will have changed so much between visits that I would challenge any person to be able to proce which pup it was you had liked.

I feel the breeder has been honest in telling you that the pup you liked is in fact the one they have decioded on for themselves. Had they known your reaction I doubt they would have bothered on another occasion just handed over the pup they wqanted you to have and you really would have been none the wiser. The differences that the breeder and other exhibitors are minor ones that may give a slight advatage in the ring over the other and really should have no bearing on how much you will love the pup, as they should all make equally loving companions.

Once this woman took your cheque as a deposit she entered into a contract with you - whether written or not .
Proving it and getting anywhere in court would be a different matter unfortunately :(
What a horrible situation as obviously you have formed a realtionship with your pup .
I wish you the best of luck in this matter and hope you get your pup.
Lesley

But did she enter into a contract to supply a particular pup or just a pup should one be available. If it was a paticular pup I think it would have to have been chiped or tatooed for it to stick in law, it is the word of the breeder who would know which pup was which against a visitor, photos wont prove anything the breeder could say well you photographed all the pups and are just using the photos you chose. Unless this pup had some very destinctive feature and that was written down and signed by both, I still thing that the poster has no chance of taking the matter further and winning.

I agree entirely with what brainless has said. I suggest you either accept the puppy offered or just accept your cheque back. I have been in a similar position myself where I decided quite late on that I was going to keep a different puppy & gave the choice of the other puppy to the lady who had already paid her deposit. I was being 100% up front with her & If she had created a big scene over it then I would simply have refused to let her have the puppy. I only want puppy owners who are 100% happy with things, so the choice was hers & she now has a lovely puppy, just not the one she was originally going to have!!! :)

The breeder is within their rights I feel & as Brainless said at least they told you. I had my last puppy ordered for 3 months before he was born, wasn't bothered about his parents as the breeders are very careful who they breed & do all the tests & I love all their dogs & bitches The first time I saw him was on the net & the breeders preferred the other one. The day his father was made up I found out we could have the one we liked & we instantly loved him the day I collected him. Just as well as they live 250+ miles away :D & now they are 15 months old I still prefer my boy :D

I think the mistake your breeder made was in making her initial choice too early. My breeder told me from the outset that her choice was between the two puppies I liked best when I first saw them. Eventually she chose the one I had preferred at the time, but when I went to pick her up, I would not have known which of the puppies she handed me - they all looked alike!. The main thing is obviously while you have built a bond with the puppy you preferred, any of those puppies would become part of your family from the moment you took it home. You would probably wonder eventually how you could have ever wanted any other pup! (once you pass the naughty stage!) I can understand your disappointment that the photos you have taken would not then be of your puppy, but maybe the breeder has others you could have? Finally, while it may not be the happiest outcome for you, surely the breeder, who has put in all the hard work, should have the choice - especially if you do not intend showing your dog. If you go for another litter, it may be farther away from you and not possibly to visit so often anyway. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Fiona and Saffy

I Think your wrong by saying that the breeder should be able to keep the best pup even if its been sold. if the breeder said that a lady could have that pup then thats what she should get, if you were buying a car and you got a blue one when you orderd red would you be happy no! and you definatly wouldent if the owner of the garage told you he was givin it to his mate. come on dont make me laugh!;)
the owner should have saved the pup from the start! i know its hard to tell which ones going to be the best but she should have sold the pups least favoured untill she got down to the most favoured ones, the breeder i got mine from took the two ones she favoured in her arms and said she couldent decided . and told us we could pick any of the rest. now thats the fair way to go about it dont you think.

But if you ordered a blue car and a red one turned up and the dealer said sorry there are no blue ones because we are keeping that, you have the option to have your deposit back or the red one. There is no way you can force someone to sell you something if they don't want to, it is their right to withdraw the item form sale and return your deposit. I know the poster has had a rough time and I could not treat someone that way, but as someone said there is always the other side of the story, the side we have heard sounds very strange for an experianced breeder, they would keep their options open.

Sorry to disagree Lovelylady, but the Breeder has put in all the time and effort in breeding the pups, and however unfair it seems, she decides which pups she keeps, when I my pup chose me, and I went to collect her 2 weeks later, the breeder could have given me any one of the 6 bitches in the litter, and I'd have been none the wiser. I do know now that I definately got the best pup ;) :D

liberty

well would you like to be told that you can have the pup you wanted then , you get the pup thats suposed to be of less quality. i think she should tell her to go stick it where the sun dont shine and get a pup from a honist breeder!!!or mabe if the dog is of less quality she should be paying less huh;) sorry to say there are some dishonist ppl out there

As already been mentioned lady, the breeder is doing nothing dishonest, infact to the contrary, she could easily have handed over the other pup without saying a word, it seems to me she is being well above board on this one, her pups, her decisions, and take it or leave it.

liberty

depends on the markings dosent it , mine was the only pup without the black on her eye. say she wants to show this pup and shes picked it because she thinks its a good qulaity pup ? dosent that count huh.i think most people who show dogs would agree there.i think its a very rude way to treat someone. getting them all set up and bonding with this pup inviting them to come and visit this pup every week and taking a snap shot of it to treasure, not only did she take there "puppy away" she wasted there time and money.
personly i think if you want to take it up i wouldent accept the deposit back and take her straight to court. you can probably sue for stress!. dont care what anyones got to say about this I and im sure others like me will belive its wrong!breeder or not its down right rude. the pups not even for the breeder to keep! I certainly wouldent treat anyone like that.and if any of you think you can i feel you should be totaly disgusted with yourselves.
Final say on it!
Lady XXXXXXXXX

Calm down lady, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I don't see why I should << be totaly disgusted....>> we'll just agree to differ on this one :)

liberty :)

beacuse its downright rude. i am calm ive just got a say on it as well , im lookin at both sides and its wrong.

Just out of interest, what would suing achieve?
:)

well it would show breeders who just fancy breaking peoples hearts , that its not ok. i could understand if the breeder said no i think your unsuitable for my dog , if she thought they wouldent treat the pup right , but she just fancied doing what she wanted with no thought for anyone else.

I could understand a problem in a breed that comes in different colours and markings, but as I understand it these pups are all the same (may be wrong, as I know there ae black and silver minis too), and saying she is being offered a lesser quality dog is daft, unless it has a physical fault. When assessing show potential we are talking about really fine points like depth of eye colour, slightly fuller or leaner head, set of tail a milimeter or two didfference, or slight difference in body proportions, all things the average pet owner wouldn't be bothered about, as the poster said they are not interested in showing.

80% of the eventual dogs personality is shaped by it's uprbringing, and even assessing the pups mental characteristics at this stage is only a clue as to how they MAY turn out. Puppy aptitude assessment has been shown to be fairly hit and miss for the reasons outlined above.

A reaction such as yours and the posters would only encourage breeders to be less honest to avoid such situations.

When I take puppy bookings I allocate a puppy in the order that they fisrs contacted me, with the proviso that if one is wanted for show then they will be pointed towards the ones I think are most promising. Mind you get 3 breeders together and you will find they would all have a different pick of litter.

If people want to choose before collection, thenI suggest they make a fist and second choice in case there's is unavailable.

With my current litter there are only two bitch pups, so the people who are having the other bitch won't know until they pick her up which she will be, as I want to keep and show the other. In this case I am lucky as they live locally, and I have actually asked them if theirs turns out better if I can show it :D

Breeders are only guessing which is pick of litter as pups change so much, and more oiften than not the best ones, barring an obvious fault like incorrect colour or bad mouth, have in fact gone to be companions only.

What it boils down to is the fact that, until the pup has actually changed hands, the money in the bank (has the deposit cheque been cashed in this particular case?) and the KC transfer complete, all the pups belong to the breeder, and she can sell them or not.
:)

What difference is there between the pups? Colour?

And would you have realised you had a different pup is she had just given it to you?

When I went to get my pup like Liberty I would not have know the difference and looking at all three now at 9 months their is very little difference, in fact if you didn't own one of them you wouldn't tell the difference. She's being honest, okay you may be a bit peeved but at the end of the day you will love the pup you take home regardless.

Karen

I think that dogs are covered by the sale of goods act,and if you choose an item(be it pup or three piece suite) once the goods have been chosen and a deposit paid, a contract is then made by seller to buyer for that particular item.I know a pup is a liveing animal but I seem to remeber from somewhere that it goe's along them lines. May be wrong but if you feel strongly enough it my be worth getting in touch with you office of fair tradeing just to find out.It seem that the breeder has jumped the gun and made her choice to early,and if you accept the other pup there is nothing to say over the next few months things will change and you could end up with the best of the two, pups change so much in the first few months

Having just read the whole of this thread it has re-enforced my decision to no longer take deposits on puppies.

As far as I am now concerned until I have physically handed over the puppy to its new owner and received payment etc. for that puppy it belongs to me and as such I make the decisions as to who can have which puppy from my litter.

My reasons for this are as some other posters have stated, that it gives me the full 8 weeks to decide which puppy is staying here. If I change my mind about selling a puppy to a particular person, then there is no unwritten contract to do so. (I have done this in the past quite late on as my gut instinct was telling me, rightly or wrongly, to not let them have a pup).

I saw a similar thing to this happen to a friend of mine, who had a person come to collect a puppy having previously seen them at 4 weeks, take away the puppy he had chosen, and then caused my friend tremendous heartache for weeks afterwards saying that he had not got the puppy he had chosen at 4 weeks. As someone else said people do not realise how much pups alter in 4 weeks and he had got the puppy he originally chose. Have to say my friend tried everything to get him to bring the puppy back and give him his money back and he was having none of it, IMO just wanted to cause trouble. It left my friend devastated that her much loved baby was in a home that she wasn't sure really wanted him.

Therefore no-one now gets to choose there puppy from me until they come to collect, and they come to collect, in the order that they booked them.

Jayne

Edited to add: Obviously all purchasers have been to see the puppies at about 4 weeks and have been vetted by me and approved before they come the second time to collect.

good idea dazzel what you could do is have a waiting list for people who will buy a pup dont let them pick till there 7 /8 weeks old then give the first person who rang or came to see them the first choice and last person, has the last choice , thats what im going to do and im going to tell them its first come first served(or to pick).then they all know where they stand and its fair.

To be fair looks are not the only important thing - perhaps the original poster liked this particular pup because of its nature, if i had picked a fairly out going pup and the one i was offered was slightly timid i wouldn't be very happy. The pup we recently got was special to us because we believe that as it was born when my sister was visiting she was the first one to hold her. Ok it may not be in reality becuase they all look the same, but it is nice to think that it is. Perhaps the poster feels attached because of all the time spent with it and another pup would not feel the same. I guess you would love an pup eventually though.
Another thing that might worry me is that the breeder might not be telling me the truth about why she has changed her mind. Although it is likely that she has now decided that this pup would be bertter for showing it could also be a health issue or temperament issue. Perhaps i am just paranoid though - but getting a pup is such a special thing i would want everything to be perfect and not to constantly have what if's. "What if i got the original pup?"

But this is where we agree. The person wanted a red car, and has been offered a red car, but not that particular red car. Now if they had paid a deposit on a black lab and then were offered a yellow, or wanted a bitch, and then were offered a dog then I could understand the reasoning.

In this case bar the tiniest deatails only really discernible by breed experts they are all Red cars, so she is being offfered not the one in the garage forecourt (which is the one you would have test driven) but one off the asembly line.

Of course the breeder should keep the best one to breed from, that is called breeding for the betterment of the breed.

but brainless what if you picked a jag. then you were told you had to have the metro. i wouldent be pleased at all
what if you wanted to start breeding yourself and searched for a particulare pup the one you decide to take back. you dont think its unfair? i do.
hey brainless if you found a pup you liked then the lady told you , you had to have the runt what would you say;) we all know the runts more likely to be the weekest.
I think its kinda selfish cant you see what im saying. this is seriously making me wonder what kind of people some breeders are. some seem so cold hearted.
Ive bought dogs off the same breeder , a few yrs later,as she was a good breeder. this breeder is not doing herself any favours.
if it were me id let a few ppl know who the breeder was.word of mouths the best way of buisness after all isent it.
and as ive said before shes giving the pup to a mate not to breed herself.
Ya wont change my mind on this one:D ill always stick up for whats fair and right

But they are not being offered a different breed, sex or colour, just a littermate. The poster wanted a companion only, and if they did want to breed the sisters have an wqual chance of producing well, having the same genetic background.

In some breeds, especially toys this is the way they breed, they keep the rather plain but bigger mnore matronly bitches to breed from, and show the small pert ones that may be more inclined due to their small size to have whelping difficulties.

My foundation bitch is a good sort but not pick of the litter in bitches, in fact the last remaining bitch, but happens to be the only one to have been bred on fromn. Her brother became a Champion, and sired some litters, but none of his children have been bred from.

In this case there is no runt, as in fact originally the breeder thought the other pup showed more promise, but this one has come on and looks better now, and they may well change again, and the one being offered will turn out better after all.

Unless there is an actual health problem the term runt is inapplicable, really only applying to farm animals.

The relative size of pups can be pretty varied, and there nbeeds to be a smallest and a largest,unless all weigh exactly the same.

My litter of four has a smallest pup, but she is already bigger than most pups her age in previous litters of this age. It is more about where they were in the uterus, as some pups are small due to overcrowding.

I have found that pups born between 6 ounces and 1 pound have all weighed about the same by 3 months of age, give or take a pound, and big pups turned out standard size, and small pups turn out large adults.

No where does it say she is giving the pup to a freind to have, just that in her freinds opinion she picked the wrong one. Breeders often invite freinds to view litters for their opinion as picking puppies is so difficult.

Lovelylady, I don't think the puppy has been given to a friend, the poster says that the breeders friend thinks the other puppy is better for showing. You can't compare the other puppy with a metro and the two puppys must be of very similar quality (otherwise the breeder would have known from the beginning hers was no good for showing). As I stated before, my breeder kept my first choice (although my puppy was my second choice, but I would not have known either way when I picked her up). They have both competed in shows and done very well, as has another puppy from the same litter. So I don't think it is unfair of the breeder - after all she would have grown attached to all the puppies and not deliberately set out to hurt anyone.

Fiona

hello kimble... you must be very disappointed to have bonded with your pup, and now be told you cannot keep it. i suspect there is little you can do but decide whether to take the pup she offers. personally i dont like people who do not honour their side of a deal, regardless of legality of it. my pups breeder made it clear right from the start that she got to choose, so i made friends with all the pups. I was therefore not disappointed. if this breeder misled you, then that was unfair and unkind, even if she has the right to choose. it wont change things, but i would certainly explain very politely how upset you are to have bonded with the wrong pup.... it may be worth suggesting a small reduction in price, as it seems she is saying your new pup is of lesser quality. the only other thing to consider is if she has the right qualities to support you after you take your pup home. if things are as you say, she didnt make her intentions clear, has been clumsy with your feelings, and has had to take advice of a friend in which pup to keep. im not sure that i would be happy to take a pup fom someone that had let me down. I am afraid the choice is yours....pup now from her, or pup later from someone with a bit more of a caring approach.

Sigh... this seems so simple to me.

Ladydazzle has her method absolutely right - she decides at 8 weeks which pup you get. That is the arrangement, you want one of her pups thats the agreement, contract if you like - and by the way money doesn't have to exchange hands for a contract to be in place. You can contract with details of when payment is made or not.

IF the arrangement was the one Ladydazzle used then this thread wouldn't be here. The breeder sets their rules [quite rightly] and everyone knows where they stand. The originator of this post entered into an agreement [contract] where they were able to choose their pup. [Again we have only 1 side of the post].

The point of suing if a case exists in law is simply this... like any business bad publicity is VERY bad publicity.

I expected that breeders like Ladydazzle would be experienced enough to make sure that everyone knew where they were from day 1, and quite rightly for everyones sakes.

How often will you.. or your friends... or your friends friends... go back and buy a car from the garage that sold you a red and then told you that you had to have a blue one? [example from a previous post].

I work in sales and believe me credibility and customer service are paramount - if my people agree to something for a customer then they get it - once a promise is made it's kept, even if the promise was made in error and ends up costing the company financially. The alternative ends up costing a lot more. Sad thing is the garage down the road ends up getting a knock on of the bad image, the industry gets remembered when the indivisual trader [or breeder] name is forgotten. believe it or not I know some honest and nice estate agents ;).

I do believe that all the rights are with the Breeder... UNTIL they contract those rights away.

Anyway, we got the dog we wanted... they couldn't switch my dog on me without me knowing so there ;P I had the only dog - rest were bitches ;)

Regards Dave

Thats funny you should mention the fact that you work in Sales, Dave, as your comments re promises made to customers is what I base my puppy sales on.

We own our own landscaping business and if I make a promise to a customer I stick to it, whether it costs me in the long run or not, Therefore before making a promise I make sure that it is something that isn't going to cost me.in money or emotion LOL ;-)

My potential puppy purchasers are made aware of all my rules and regulations at their very first phone call to me, including the fact that I never agree to anyone having a puppy purely by telephone, and if they wish to visit then they must be aware that visiting does not give them the automatic right to have one of my puppies.

IMO it sounds as if the original breeder referred to is probably a little naieve and it is maybe their first litter, we all have to learn how to do these things. Therefore I wouldn't condemn her as she obviously learning the ropes. The one thing that does bother me though is that if the guest is to get nasty about things, then if I was the breeder I would tell them to get lost and find a puppy elsewhere.

It is a two way deal and puppies are not inanimate objects, and If I couldn't have an ongoing relationship with my purchaser I would be devastated and would probably fight tooth and nail to keep them from having my pup.

Jayne

Im not arguing anymore on this subject. the buyer was treated badly,i do not agree that every litter mate is the same, its a shame that this lady has been treated like this,i really hope you find yourself a proper breeder:)
If shes not wlling to keep her end of the bargin then if you need advice will she help you there, umm anyway good luck with your search. Im sure you will find yourself a proper little pup with a breeder that will be a little more caring.:) goodluck
Lady XXXXXXXXXX

Have just come in on this thread and read it through......at the end of the day the puppies are still owned by the breeder (regardless of deposit) until such time as the KC reg has been transferred into the new owners name. The breeder could have lied to this lady and told her that her puppy had died or something but she was being completely honest with her. A deposit is only a deposit, the breeder can at any time refund this for whatever reason they so wish. As for this Bonding with the said pup I really dont think that this can happen in only one day a week. I know that this lady visited every week but I really dont think a bond (the puppy) that is would have recognised these people when only seeing them once a week. Anyway would this lady know which was her puppy if she had them all together. I dont think so. I have a job to know which are which when I have a litter and I am with them 24/7.

Hi Jayne, rules and regs are good ;) long as everyone understands where they stand - methinks with you they certainly would ;).

I knew exactly where I stood with my breeder, and we are in regular contact and have developed a long distance friendship. Think it's a good idea that puppy buyers are treated the same way as puppies... they should know exactly where they stand and no grey areas... saves confusion and upset. I find changing goal posts, or revealed small print one of the most frustrating things in life... my wife understands that and I know exactly what my limits are ;). woof woof!

Regards Dave

Glad to hear you know your place in life Dave.

The bitches are always in charge in my house ;-)

Jayne

Just out of curosity - has "Kimble" posted again or is this yet another one of those posts where someone asks a question that everyone else discusses, debates and argues over with the original poster never appearing again??

Christine

Don't think so Christine, but it was a guest, still an interesting thread.

haha christine i think your right.:) ahh well its good to get your thoughts out once in a while huh:)

Aw I hope we find out if she gets the dog she wanted, its been really interesting reading this thread.

It would have been easier if we knew what breed the pups were, for example, when i picked my BC some were blue merle and some were black and white and the different markings made them easier to distinguish. However when i picked my Golden retriever i probably picked a different pup each time because they were virtually identical - well except for gender anyway!

They are Miniature Schnauzer and the chances are they are all salt & pepper, but we don't know.

Actually LadyDazzle,

My breeder did just as you say you will do in future. My breed Staffords, and I choose the breeder because of the dogs previously bred by him and his attitude toward his dogs.

We went and saw the litter at 5 weeks 3 dogs 3 bitches and he had already said he would be keeping a bitch, and one other would be going to a man who he knew intended to show and who's sister had had a dog pup from one of his previous bitches litters. So the third bitch would be mine. Of Sal's two litter sisters one is identical to Sal in everyway and the other so close unless you saw Sal and sister 1 you wouldn't think two bitches could look so similar. Good breeding Yes and we only knew which pup we were having on the day we went to collect.

We are happy and no deposit was taken because he did not know which pup was allocated to us. Payment and collection on the same day

Karen