Hi, I'm new to this forum but have been reading it a lot recently -
especially about natural diets. I am sold on concept as a whole, but I have
some questions if anyone can help me:

1. BARF diet or Pitcairns diets? Which are easier / better? (I have
Pitcairns book and have just ordered one of Billinghurst's books - Give
your dog a bone. Pitcairns seems to included lots of supplements and I
don't know where to find them here in the UK - powdered kelp? edible
bonemeal? nutritional yeast? Does anyone know a good online supplier of
such things?)

2. Which Billinghurst / BARF book is best? There are 3 on Amazon: 1) The
BARF Diet: For dogs and cats: using evolutionary principles; 2) Give Your
Dog a Bone: The practical Commonsense way to feed dogs; 3) Grow your pups
with bones: the bark program. Any recommendations?

3. Any idea where to get good quality raw meat at reasonable prices? I hear
people talking about chicken carcasses and chicken wings and so on in the
various 'natural diet' threads that I've read. I could get it in the
supermarket, but it would turn out very expensive (perhaps this is what I
have to do?). Has anyone used 'Prize Choice' frozen pet meat? Is this any
good? I've used it before but don't know much about it.

Sorry in advance if this has already been covered elsewhere. I would appreciate any input - you don't have to answer all 3 questions! Thanks.

I would suggest you join this group BritBarf

As well as being able to get help and advice they also have a section in the files which lists suppliers of raw food all over the UK. I've been feeding raw for a year and although it looks really complicated at first once you get into the way of it it really isn't hard at all. As to supplements some people do some don't I'm middle of the road, most of what I give is for my 13 year old.

Even if you are undecided BritBarf is a good place to get info and they are a really friendly bunch

Anne

Hi,

We feed BARF to our dogs and they are fantastic on it. We have used Ian Billingshurst books and they are great, the first two would be the best to get, as the other is more for breeders.

We get our raw food from a company called Anglia Meat Products (AMP) as they use very good quality meat which is human grade.

Good luck :)

Manda
x

HIya

I feed roughly to Billinghursts BARF diet, havent actually read Pitcairns books.
Which book really depends on a/how much dosh you have to burn, and b/ are you introducing the diet to a pup, or to an older dog.
I found both Give Your Dog A Bone and Grow Your Pups With Bones informative, BUT a vast waste of money, as the information is repeated ad nauseum. What he says in 400 odd pages could as easily be said in 50, and u wouldnt have to pay over £20 for it! (Still i got my copy from the library, call me picky but im like that about books).

In general, i actually found the one about pups better, it made sense of a whole lot of things, but then again, i didnt read any books about it till id been feeding raw for several months (with a lot of help from people who fed raw for years).

As regards the actual food, buying from a supermarket IS more expensive, if you cant find a good supplier of bulk stuffs, the next best bet is your local market. I buy a crate of chicken wings for under £15, that lasts three dogs for nearly a month, using 6 or so a day.
I also buy all my veg there, and that sets me back about £2-4 a week.

What you really need to find is a good butcher, one who actually butchers meat up, and not one who just sells pre packed stuff. Go and speak nicely to them, promise you will buy all your meat from them forever more.....and in general if you know what to ask for you can come away with huge SACKS full of gory bits n bobs.
What you want to be asking the butcher for is 'Lamb ribs, chicken carcasses, turkey necks/backs, wings, beef ribs, all good meals, and lamb shanks, beef legs as recreational bones. Depending on the size of your dogs, you can feed a whole lot of other bony stuff too, but thats what i usually get.

Prize Choice meats are handy, especially if you are like me and find it hard to get hold of tripe, and dislike handling offal type stuff. Its also nice to give some variation, like rabbit. I believe AMP make Prize Choice meats, and it comes in either blocks, or free flow chunks.

My dogs diet currently consists of:
Breakfast; 3rd of a can of oily fish or occasionally a whole can each of tuna,
table spoonful of veg mix
spoon of cottage cheese

Lunch, not always!
Recreational bone

Dinner, 2 chicken wings, couple of raw carrots.

Bear in mind, my dogs are all knee height 'littleuns'. On this diet they are all lean and fit.

Occasionally, they get offal, eggs, minced beef or economy minced beef/pork, turkey chunks, etc.
Also, they usually get table scraps several times a week.

Added to their diet, i supplement with Keepers Mix, from Dorwest Herbs, and Kelp Powder, or tablets which you can buy from local health food shops or market stalls. I also feed brewers yeast, olive oil and plenty of garlic.

Em

Thanks for the excellent replies. I'm going to do a little more reading and some investigation into my local suppliers. Theemx - are the chicken wings you get from battery chickens or not? Just thinking that the conditions in which battery chickens are kept are ripe for salmonella - just a little concerned about that...

You can get kelp (seaweed) in ground form for horses, and linseed oil where ever they sell horse feeds. I could not get just kelp and they are currently on seaweed and rosehip mixture (smells nice)

Christine

You can buy kelp on its own from H [$ B, or Hilton Herbs. You can also get kelp tablets from Dorwest herbs. If you go for linseed oil be careful] you may get the stuff for horses feet or cricket bats. For human ingestion it is called flaxseed oil again available at any supermarket. A lot of dogs are better on Fish Body Oils (available from any supermarket) as they can be allergic to flax. The FBO has a high Omega 3 content to counter the high Omega 6s found in grain fed meat. (Cod Liver Oil should not be used as it contains Vits A & D, unless sparingly in the winter).

You can buy herbs and supplements at Pets at Home. I buy ground, sterilised bone meal there as well, since I do not give my dog bones. I am just too nervous about it for now. You can also buy calcium tablets.

If you decide to feed your dog a more natural diet you can forget about different supplements and buy a good quality dog multi vitamin tablet instead. Make sure it has calcium if you do not feed bones.

Dorwest has a web site where you can order online, but they do not sell bone meal or calcium tablets.

Stacey

Hi, just saw you said you give Brewers Yeast to your dogs. What does that do for them? Thanks, Imp.

Brewers yeast is full of B vitamins, and is great for skin/coat health and for the dogs metabolism as well. I dont add it every day, as the point of the raw diet is to provide balance over time, i just sling in a few tablets a couple of times a week, the same goes for the keepers mix and the kelp powder (you can feed kelp tablets, i just got powder last time)

Em

The chicken wings i feed are organic, from free range chickens. These are the ones off the market anyway, the ones i sometimes have to get from Asda i suspect are battery chickens, so i avoid them if i can. There is a notable difference in quality anyway, the market wings being much meatier and better looking than asda's variety!

Em

If you have a dog that is prone to yeast overgrowth eg has chronic ear infections etc it would be better to avoid brewers yeast altogether and buy a B complex vitamin.

OK - will keep an eye out for that. Thanks. Imp

Thanks for the info Em. What are your thoughts on raw chicken wings and salmonella? Have you ever seen any problem with this in dogs? Imp

I havent had a problem with raw chicken/salmonella in the entire time i have been feeding raw. Thats roughly a year now.

Bear in mind, i am NOT the worlds tidyest/cleanest person, so the fact that neither i or the dogs have got sick must say something!

Dogs do have much stronger stomach acid than we do, and are designed to eat not just raw meat, but carrion, ie fairly old raw meat! Some people will tell you that over the years of feeding commercial diets, this ability to eat less than fresh food has been evolved out, dont listen to that, its utter bullc**p. Dogs have been eating raw meat and bones for thousands of years, and only eating commercially prepared food for around 50 years.

Another interesting myth is that a raw fed dog will get a 'taste' for flesh and turn wild and savage children and other animals!!!!!

Basically, so long as your source your meat from a reputable place (ie one whose produce you would eat) adn practice basic food hygiene, ie dont cross contaminate raw meat with veg, use seperate chopping boards for meat and for veg, defrost dog meat in a seperate place from your own food, and wash your hands and surfaces down regularly, then you will be fine.

Em

Thanks for that. Have just been reading one of Billinghurst's books today. It all seems to make sense. Imp.